New Member, trying to get off the fence

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CarlFlat

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
14
Location
Long Island, NY
I’ve been lurking on this forum for a while, on and off, thinking that a used Leaf could work for me, but, reading about all the battery uncertainty kept me from getting too serious. Buying a used Leaf is NOT easy! I am ready to engage the helpful folks on this forum, as I’m trying to get off the fence and seriously shop for a Leaf.

I’m interested in a Leaf because most of my driving is within 30 miles, but I’d need a comfortable 80 mile R/T potential to feel that the investment is worthwhile, for me.

I’ve been subscribed to CarGurus and I get listings on a regular basis. I originally thought I’d aim for a 2016 or older, but moved up to considering 2017s because it would give me some more peace of mind by having a longer warranty coverage on the batteries, although there seem to be few 2017s for sale.

One question I have is, should I let Consumer Reports dissuade me from considering a 2018? They single that model year out as having a very bad “Reliability” rating, but they identify it as the “second generation” Leaf. Does this “redesign” represent a lot of value and balance the reliability hit, in terms of value? Is that poor reliability rating deserved?

That said, prices I’m seeing seem mostly to be based on the number of miles the car has been driven, rather than the model year. I understand how that works on ICE cars. Would folks, here, say that miles under it's belt is the best determinant of the value of any given Leaf with the same size battery, irrespective of year?
 
The reliability rating of the 2018 is likely due to issues with Pro Pilot, which is part of the optional "Tech Package" so you can avoid that. Also an issue is more than a few bad cells in the battery packs. This can be avoided by using LeafSpy Pro and a compatible Bluetooth dongle to look for weak cells in a prospective purchase. The 2018+ Leafs use the same basic body structure as the previous Leafs, and even the same motors, but they have much more energy dense batteries, and the upgraded hardware needed to get about 50% more power from that motor. There are also numerous interior changes, including a new dashboard. The nose and tail are also new. I'm going to link to my used Leaf buying guide. I don't really have much on the Gen II Leaf in there yet, but I'll be adding it soon.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662&p=538030
 
I have several different issues/questions, at this point. I'm not sure if they belong in different threads, so I'll start here and hope to get guidance.

1) I have not found detailed instructions on how to use LeafSpy Pro.( I have tried using the Search function in this board, but had minimal success) I believe that I need the Pro because my phone is iOS. Please guide me to details on using LeafSpy... but it raises another question: Is it likely that a dealer would allow me to connect a dongle to their car's computer? Should I avoid buying from a dealer?
a) There are Certified Pre-Owned 2018s and 2019s out there at dealers - is Certified Pre-Owned worth anything? ...or am I better off staying away from dealers.
b) I'm getting the feeling that I might get better value from a later 2017 with more miles at a lower price, than a 2018. Would people concur on that? IOW, 2018 and 2019 cars still have plenty of issues and paying up for newer models will not buy me as much peace of mind as it might intuitively seem.

2) In the "Used Leaf Buyers Guide" and in other discussions I'm seeing it said that the battery packs are covered by an "8-year, 100,000 mile warranty". That's NOT what I'm seeing. I'm seeing "84month, 100,000 mile warranty" which is only 7 years.
 
CarlFlat said:
I’m interested in a Leaf because most of my driving is within 30 miles, but I’d need a comfortable 80 mile R/T potential to feel that the investment is worthwhile, for me.
You need to add clarity here. A car that fits varies A LOT depending on whether you are talking about
80 EPA miles ? OR
80 miles the way you drive, any day of the year in your climate ?

Then you need to to discount the range 5% a year to account for battery degradation. This point is LEAF specific
 
I would go with a 2018 if you want "in most weather" 80 mile round trip ease. Sure, many 30kWh Leafs can do it, but would be dicey in very cold weather and degradation is a concern. The 40s and the 62s seems to be holding a much narrower range of degradation than previous batteries.
 
Welcome!

I am a very satisfied driver of a 2016 LEAF S 30 kWh w/ Quick charge package that I purchased used and feel it is an excellent fit for my driving and budget. I live rurally, several miles off the pavement. Nearly all my driving is at least 25 miles each way, and I have never gotten close to being stranded.

I am not very concerned with battery degradation or warranty. I have probably voided the battery warranty by missing a battery check-up or two, and this one shows no noticeable degradation after 4 years. I am able to keep it garaged almost all the time, however. If I had to park outside during the day, I may have chosen a different model.

I do not find preowned 2018+ LEAFs to be very good values. If I needed more capacity, I would look into a preowned Chevy Bolt. They have 60 kWh of capacity and have started to come down to $14.5-17k, which I see as an incredible EV value.

An 80 mile round trip in inclement weather could be a challenge with a 30 kWh LEAF, but I have no problem boosting up a bit on a public charger, if just to avoid cutting it too close.

Last week, I completed a 97.9 mile round trip and used 80% charge. I was thoroughly impressed! Much of it was hilly interstate, but I stayed behind slower traffic and never went over 65 mph, and no heat or A/C was used.

Best wishes! I am completely hooked on EVs, and hope I never have to go back to combustion with a primary vehicle.
 
CarlFlat said:
I’ve been lurking on this forum for a while, on and off, thinking that a used Leaf could work for me, but, reading about all the battery uncertainty kept me from getting too serious. Buying a used Leaf is NOT easy! I am ready to engage the helpful folks on this forum, as I’m trying to get off the fence and seriously shop for a Leaf.

I’m interested in a Leaf because most of my driving is within 30 miles, but I’d need a comfortable 80 mile R/T potential to feel that the investment is worthwhile, for me...

Please add your location to your signature. Depending on where you live, a 30 kWh LEAF may or may not meet your needs...
 
PrairieLEAF said:
....I do not find preowned 2018+ LEAFs to be very good values. If I needed more capacity, I would look into a preowned Chevy Bolt. They have 60 kWh of capacity and have started to come down to $14.5-17k, which I see as an incredible EV value.....

I think you've identified the horns of my current dilemma.

If I could get away with the 2017/30kWh Leaf and keep the cost down below $12k, I'd be happy. But if I have to spend another $5k or more for a 2018 (or 2019, which is available in the same ballpark), why wouldn't I choose one, like the Bolt, that gives me range to spare for about the same money? (I'm not seeing comparable Bolts below $17k).

IOW, is a 2019 Leaf so much better than a Bolt that I leave all that extra range on the table?

That's a real question. Perhaps some of you have the answer(s).
 
My $0.02 is that here in CO you can buy a new Leaf for less than a comparable used one. It depends on your tax liability and other factors but if you can swing a new one, that is often a cheaper alternative. And +1 on a used Bolt. I'm personally not looking for one but I've read here that there are great deals to be had there and they appear to be a solid design.
 
Where you at?
Some places it may not be a good idea to have a leaf.
When you buy a leaf you want to avoid getting one from a hot location.
 
CarlFlat said:
PrairieLEAF said:
....I do not find preowned 2018+ LEAFs to be very good values. If I needed more capacity, I would look into a preowned Chevy Bolt. They have 60 kWh of capacity and have started to come down to $14.5-17k, which I see as an incredible EV value.....

I think you've identified the horns of my current dilemma.

If I could get away with the 2017/30kWh Leaf and keep the cost down below $12k, I'd be happy. But if I have to spend another $5k or more for a 2018 (or 2019, which is available in the same ballpark), why wouldn't I choose one, like the Bolt, that gives me range to spare for about the same money? (I'm not seeing comparable Bolts below $17k).

IOW, is a 2019 Leaf so much better than a Bolt that I leave all that extra range on the table?

That's a real question. Perhaps some of you have the answer(s).

It comes down to comfort. Drive a Bolt. If you like the way it drives and feels, then it's a better buy. Some of us were less than impressed with the way the car drove and with the ergonomics.
 
I would second that. IF you like the Bolt, it is a great option. For most driving needs the Bolt, M3, Leaf, Kona, Niro, etc.. will meet your typical driving needs year round. How you like the time in the ride (combined with cost) them become the determining factors.
 
Looks like the OP is in Long Island, NY. My understanding is that winters there aren't that harsh, so he could probably get 60 miles of cold weather range from a good condition 30 kWh pack. I'm sure others from that area can chime in though with more accurate estimates...

Having said that, there seem to be many charging options in his area, according to PlugShare, so he should be able to charge enroute, when necessary.

This 2016 SV appears to have 12 capacity bars intact:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=556997536

According to the original sales sticker, it's an SV with a 30 kWh pack, includes only the splash guard and floor/cargo mats. Is DC charging included on a 2016 SV as standard equipment? Pretty sure there was still a charging package, in which case this LEAF doesn't have that.

Not a bad deal at that price.
 
Re: Bolt - I test drove a new 2020, yesterday. Not impressed with the ride.

Looking forward to test driving my first, ever, Leaf today, albeit a 2019. I'll take what I can get. I need to compare the ride to the Bolt and it's the only one available to me right now.

Re: 2016 link sent above. According to vehiclehistory.com it not only has the Quick Charge System, but heated seats and steering wheel. I'm assuming that means it has a heat pump, yes?
As for 12 bars, I need to be schooled on that. So, even though the photo shows that the vehicle is only charged with 20 miles of range, there seem to be all bars available (white? are they grey or just gone when they are not available anymore?) - Question: when a vehicle loses bars they disappear even when the car is not fully charged? I don't need to see a fully charged screen in order to know if it has already lost bars?

...But I do need to check on the BMS update-
Please help me find details/instructions on LeafSpy use with an iPhone.

Also, important question for me- On Gen 2, 2018, 2019 Leafs, is there a BMS update issue or is that only on older, Gen 1 vehicles before 2018?
 
Until 2018, all post-2012 SV and SL Leafs have the heatpump. The BMS update applies only to the 2016-2017 30kwh batteries. The capacity bars, which are the little bars right next to the larger charge bars, vanish from sight as capacity is lost. One may reappear briefly after the first time it 'drops' and then go away for good. The capacity display is independent of the charge display, so the number of capacity bars stays the same regardless of state of charge.
 
I just bought a pre-owned, "certified" 12-bar 2017 S Leaf from a local Nissan dealer (New Haven, CT are). They were fine with me plugging in to run Leafspy, which was helpful as they didn't have the battery report and the one tech who could run it wasn't there that day. I'm not totally sure it was worth it to get it from the Nissan dealer. Definitely a little more expensive I imagine. But supposedly that did help "extend" my warranty some. The sales folks were somewhat more familiar with the Leaf than an average used car lot would be, but they weren't experts by any mean. I probably paid a little more than I would have liked for the car ($12K list price, and out the door was around $15k, as CT taxes are brutal), but so far after 3 weeks, we're pretty happy with it, and getting good range out of it.

Leafspy is totally worth it, as that top (12th) bar of battery capacity really runs from 100-85%. So you could be on the high or the low end of that, and it's nice to know.
 
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