Going for a warranty replacement, wish me luck.

solvorn · Oct 22, 2020

Bought a lightly used 2017 Leaf last weekend to commute to work back and forth to go with my newly installed 10kW solar array.
Here are my LeafSpy stats:

AHr = 46.88
SOH = 58.98%
395.0V
Hx = 56.04%
odo = 34,412
39 QCs
1170 L1/L2s

8 bars.

All cells between about 4.107 and 4.115 with all but one between 4.11 and 4.115

With a full night's charge on my 240V/32A charger I get
SOC 97.7
SOH 59.98
395.0
Gids = 214
Ah = 45.80

I believe this qualifies me for a warranty replacement. I notice that my ECU version for my battery is 4NP4A, which I believe is pre-software update.

My guess is the dealer will try to convince me the software update will fix this abnormal degradation but I'm going to try and push them for the replacement since I believe it qualifies and cross my fingers for the 40kWhr!

What do you think?

LeftieBiker · Oct 22, 2020

They won't replace the battery until the BMS update has been performed, and assuming that the display rises above 8 bars as it almost certainly will, it has once again dropped below 9. I suggest that you adjust your expectations to 'a new 40kwr battery sometime in the next year.'

Driver8 · Oct 23, 2020

I'm interested to hear what happens at the dealer. Please update afterwards.

I do have to question whether you can call a car "lightly used" with a SOH stat of only 58?

Guessing this car previously lived in the south?

SageBrush · Oct 23, 2020

solvorn said:
I believe

Beliefs are irrelevant. Two conditions have to be met:
1. The software update was applied
2. The car shows less than 9 capacity bars

So far as I know, the software upgrade resets the battery so even if it has degraded to warranty replacement level it will take some time for the reset to wear off, more if the car is not driven much. Second, sometimes the software upgrade actually does correct a mis-calibration so for now you do not really know *what* your battery capacity is unless you do a charge or charge depletion test.

IIRC your car has an 8 yr/100k battery degradation warranty. Be very cognizant of the details because Nissan will tell you to pound sand if you do not meet the letter of the warranty. And I do mean the letter. One day past warranty, or one mile past warranty --- you are out of luck. You should also be aware that Nissan does not owe you a 40 kWh new battery by the warranty terms. All they have to do is bring your car range up to at least 9 capacity bars. They have done more in the past but that is their choice, not yours. Lastly, do yourself a favor and disabuse yourself of the notion that if you are a squeaky enough wheel Nissan will capitulate to your demands. All it will accomplish is to annoy your dealership.

solvorn · Oct 23, 2020

SageBrush said:
Beliefs are irrelevant. Two conditions have to be met:
1. The software update was applied
2. The car shows less than 9 capacity bars

So far as I know, the software upgrade resets the battery so even if it has degraded to warranty replacement level it will take some time for the reset to wear off, more if the car is not driven much. Second, sometimes the software upgrade actually does correct a mis-calibration so for now you do not really know *what* your battery capacity is unless you do a charge or charge depletion test.

IIRC your car has an 8 yr/100k battery degradation warranty. Be very cognizant of the details because Nissan will tell you to pound sand if you do not meet the letter of the warranty. And I do mean the letter. One day past warranty, or one mile past warranty --- you are out of luck. You should also be aware that Nissan does not owe you a 40 kWh new battery by the warranty terms. All they have to do is bring your car range up to at least 9 capacity bars. They have done more in the past but that is their choice, not yours. Lastly, do yourself a favor and disabuse yourself of the notion that if you are a squeaky enough wheel Nissan will capitulate to your demands. All it will accomplish is to annoy your dealership.

Well, I guess I found the ackshually guy on my first day.
I never offered my beliefs as "relevant." I am stating what I think is the case. I am unsure (hence the normal English usage, "believe") what what I posted means and gave what I thought it did. Since you know so much about the ways of the world here, please, do tell me what those numbers mean so that my irrelevant beliefs can cease and I can bathe in the light of your true knowledge.

Anyway, your second paragraph is mostly your emotional damage and nothing about the real world. Nissan doesn't write the laws. They have to comply with their end of it too and fraudulent tricks to get around it won't survive scrutiny by a judge. Don't you get that's why they have this program for the 2017s in the first place?

Good for you, you told another person on the Internet about life and made it an even worse place.

solvorn · Oct 23, 2020

Driver8 said:
I'm interested to hear what happens at the dealer. Please update afterwards.

I do have to question whether you can call a car "lightly used" with a SOH stat of only 58?

Guessing this car previously lived in the south?

I meant that in the normal sense of the term. It's in excellent condition with low mileage. If all you look at is the SOH, it means what it means.

Anyway, the dealer seemed to agree with me that it was quite low. Shocked almost. They are going to run the tests.

solvorn · Oct 23, 2020

UPDATE:

Software update and another battery-related recall installed.

11 bars.

The service manager told me that he sees some drop quickly after this and they will arrange for a replacement if that happens, and that he has replaced several batteries in the 2017s.

I got all the documentation. But 11 bars? I'm happy with that if it's real. If it was a thin 9, I would feel differently. They were very nice and didn't act like I was a squeaky wheel at all.

A good result, I'm happy and this is a much simpler transaction!

goldbrick · Oct 23, 2020

Get LeafSpy as it will tell you much more detailed information about the SOH reading of the car. You may still be a candidate for a warranty replacement battery which IMO is a great place to be. The rest of the car will last for a long time and getting a brand new (40kWh !!) battery in the middle of the car's life is like a gift from ....somewhere.

Driver8 · Oct 24, 2020

solvorn said:
Driver8 said:

I'm interested to hear what happens at the dealer. Please update afterwards.

I do have to question whether you can call a car "lightly used" with a SOH stat of only 58?

Guessing this car previously lived in the south?

Click to expand...

I meant that in the normal sense of the term. It's in excellent condition with low mileage. If all you look at is the SOH, it means what it means.

Anyway, the dealer seemed to agree with me that it was quite low. Shocked almost. They are going to run the tests.

"Normal sense of the term" doesn't mean as much for EV's though. The battery is by far the most important stat. It's always great that interior/exterior of the car is in good shape, but lower range Leafs will almost always have lower mileage compared to ICE's. I just bought a 2017 with 26K miles and the SOH was 89% (and even that was a little lower than I had hoped because the previous lease-e had almost exclusively rapid charged the car), so I am surprised that your SOH was so low, but maybe now the update has "fixed" it?

What is the SOH reading now that the software update has been done?

DaveinOlyWA · Oct 24, 2020

SageBrush said:
solvorn said:

I believe

Click to expand...

Beliefs are irrelevant. Two conditions have to be met:
1. The software update was applied
2. The car shows less than 9 capacity bars

So far as I know, the software upgrade resets the battery so even if it has degraded to warranty replacement level it will take some time for the reset to wear off, more if the car is not driven much. Second, sometimes the software upgrade actually does correct a mis-calibration so for now you do not really know *what* your battery capacity is unless you do a charge or charge depletion test.

IIRC your car has an 8 yr/100k battery degradation warranty. Be very cognizant of the details because Nissan will tell you to pound sand if you do not meet the letter of the warranty. And I do mean the letter. One day past warranty, or one mile past warranty --- you are out of luck. You should also be aware that Nissan does not owe you a 40 kWh new battery by the warranty terms. All they have to do is bring your car range up to at least 9 capacity bars. They have done more in the past but that is their choice, not yours. Lastly, do yourself a favor and disabuse yourself of the notion that if you are a squeaky enough wheel Nissan will capitulate to your demands. All it will accomplish is to annoy your dealership.

I get its Halloween but digging up the grave of this dead horse is really quite hilarious :lol:

jlv · Oct 24, 2020

goldbrick said:
Get LeafSpy as it will tell you much more detailed information about the SOH reading of the car. You may still be a candidate for a warranty replacement battery which IMO is a great place to be. The rest of the car will last for a long time and getting a brand new (40kWh !!) battery in the middle of the car's life is like a gift from ....somewhere.

You did notice in the OP where he posted the stats from Leaf Spy?

No, he's not a candidate for a warranty replacement right now, and he never was. From his initial post it was obvious he was going to get the BMS update and end up with 10 or 11 bars.

goldbrick · Oct 24, 2020

And the car is 3 years old and has 5 more years before the warranty expires. I'd bet he gets a new battery at some point.

solvorn · Oct 26, 2020

goldbrick said:
Get LeafSpy as it will tell you much more detailed information about the SOH reading of the car. You may still be a candidate for a warranty replacement battery which IMO is a great place to be. The rest of the car will last for a long time and getting a brand new (40kWh !!) battery in the middle of the car's life is like a gift from ....somewhere.

I posted my leafspy stats in the OP...........................

solvorn · Oct 26, 2020

jlv said:
goldbrick said:

Get LeafSpy as it will tell you much more detailed information about the SOH reading of the car. You may still be a candidate for a warranty replacement battery which IMO is a great place to be. The rest of the car will last for a long time and getting a brand new (40kWh !!) battery in the middle of the car's life is like a gift from ....somewhere.

Click to expand...

You did notice in the OP where he posted the stats from Leaf Spy?

No, he's not a candidate for a warranty replacement right now, and he never was. From his initial post it was obvious he was going to get the BMS update and end up with 10 or 11 bars.

So, here's what happened when I brought the car home. I got the software update, 11 bars. Leafspy has my SOH over 80 now. BUT.

The service manager said they would comp me a battery test the next time I came in for service and replace it if it showed any signs of degradation at all. When I mentioned that I had heard that the software reset would only go to 9, as the initial replyguy said here, he said if it had done that they would have run the battery test right away.

I never squeaky wheeled, I was just straight up. Even though I'm working in applied math now, I have a law degree. It's not like I'm concerned about getting told "no" by some dude once. There's always a procedure to try and play out. If I had listened to guys like that a few years ago I never would have gotten my surgery approved by insurance. Polite persistence pays. No need to be a jerk, but come on. If the battery loses most of its life in 3 years, that's just wrong.

I'm very happy with the result and I'm not sure why everyone was so fast to curb my enthusiasm. I wonder if this board has the typical negative board culture. I was hoping for a friendly place to share info and projects about Leafs, not get hazed.

WetEV · Oct 26, 2020

solvorn said:
I'm very happy with the result and I'm not sure why everyone was so fast to curb my enthusiasm. I wonder if this board has the typical negative board culture. I was hoping for a friendly place to share info and projects about Leafs, not get hazed.

The culture here is fairly "Tesla Fanboy". However, there is a lot of good information, and still people that love their LEAFs. And even some of the Tesla Fanboys are not unreasonable all of the time.

alozzy · Oct 26, 2020

Some people are killjoys, don't let that color your views of these forums. On the whole, it's a decent online community and I think it's an excellent resource if you ever have problems with a LEAF as there are a few exceptionally knowledgeable people - regulars and those who visit from time to time.

FWIW, the update does a BMS reset so it might take a few weeks before you know the true condition of the pack. Check with Leafspy at the end of November.

Where you live will be the biggest determining factor. DaveinOlyWA lives in the PNW, so from his perspective there's no way you qualify. However, others from hotter locales would be more optimistic about your chances, if you live in SoCal, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, etc...

goldbrick · Oct 26, 2020

The basic math is that the car is 80% SOH after roughly 3 years and the car will qualify for a replacement pack around 67% SOH. The warranty is for 8 years/100k miles.

A lot depends on the local climate and how the battery is used. You can find all the details here or ask around. It looks to me like you have a good chance to get a replacement pack. The thing to avoid is to to just miss the warranty period. I'd either want to keep the battery at optimum health (too late for this one....IMHO) or have it go fast enough to get a new one.

I'm on a few much more friendly and helpful forums but I've certainly seen worse. EV's are still a car for folks with $$ to spend so there seems to be a lot more TypeA folks here than other places, but there is a lot of great information and fun projects too so don't be put off.

Nubo · Oct 26, 2020

solvorn said:
I'm very happy with the result and I'm not sure why everyone was so fast to curb my enthusiasm. I wonder if this board has the typical negative board culture. I was hoping for a friendly place to share info and projects about Leafs, not get hazed.

The info may have been stated brusquely but essentially it was correct -- they gave you the update and now you wait to see if you meet the criteria. This topic has a history and folks are understandably dissatisfied with Nissan's handling of battery issues based on many interactions. That being said, I've thoroughly enjoyed both our LEAFs. I hope you enjoy yours.

LeftieBiker · Oct 26, 2020

I'm 'the initial reply guy" and I never said that the update and reset reset would 'only go to nine'. Here is what I wrote, again :

They won't replace the battery until the BMS update has been performed, and assuming that the display rises above 8 bars as it almost certainly will, it has once again dropped below 9. I suggest that you adjust your expectations to 'a new 40kwr battery sometime in the next year.'

I was correct. I'm sorry that one of the other posters was rude, but please don't conflate all of us with him. Most forums have at least one Grouch, but I do try to be both accurate and friendly. I suspect that having seen one rude reply, you misread that rudeness into several other posts, even though it wasn't there. Good luck (NOT sarcasm) with your likely free 40kwh battery replacement some time in the next year or so.

cwerdna · Oct 26, 2020

SageBrush said:
You should also be aware that Nissan does not owe you a 40 kWh new battery by the warranty terms. All they have to do is bring your car range up to at least 9 capacity bars. They have done more in the past but that is their choice, not yours.

Despite the naysayers, both of these are correct.

https://www.nissanusa.com/content/dam/Nissan/us/manuals-and-guides/leaf/2017/2017-Nissan-LEAF-warranty-booklet.pdf on page 8 says

This warranty covers any repairs needed to return battery capacity to a level of nine remaining bars on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge. If possible, the lithium-ion battery components will be repaired or replaced, and the original lithium- ion battery will be returned to the vehicle. If nec- essary, the lithium-ion battery will be replaced with either a new or remanufactured lithium-ion battery. Any repair or replacement made under this Lithium-Ion Battery Capacity Coverage may not return your lithium-ion battery to an “as new” con- dition with all 12 battery capacity bars, but it will provide the vehicle with a capacity level of nine

(sorry about the wonky formatting... this is what happens w/copy/paste)

I haven't heard of Nissan installing used batteries as warranty replacements yet but they from day one of providing the capacity warranty (as a result of the Klee class action settlement) have left themselves the option to.

Going for a warranty replacement, wish me luck.

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