minitoleaf
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:25 am
Delivery Date: 29 May 2019
Leaf Number: 313582
Location: Seattle WA

Miles per kWh not making sense to me

Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:54 pm

Miles / kWh not making any sense to me.

I have a 2019 40kwh Leaf, and I drive in Seattle Washington. The way I check my range performance is to divide miles driven by battery percentage used.

For Example: I recently charged to 100% and immediately drove 137 miles, about 2/3 freeway at 60 mph and the rest around 45 mph on secondary roads. At the end of this trip the remaining battery registered 12%. So I figure 137 divided by 88 (percentage battery used) = 1.55. Or 155 miles of range had I driven the car all the way down to 0%.

Whenever I drive in temperate weather with no rain, and no need to use cabin heating or air conditioning I get 1.49 to 1.55 miles per 1 % of battery. In other words spot on Nissan’s claim of 150 miles from a 40 kWh battery.

But if I look at my Leaf’s Miles per kWH meter it typically shows 4.7 to 5.1 m/kWh for the same driving in temperate weather with no cabin heat/air conditioning. At the low end of 4.7, my Leaf would only be using 32 kWh of a full battery to produce 150 miles. At 5.1 kWh my car would only utilize 29.4 kWh. I would think a 40 kWh battery manages itself so that at least 35 kWh is dedicated to driving the car. If so that would produce 178.5 miles of range.

What gives??

Thanks for listening, Scott Newcombe

goldbrick
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Miles per kWh not making sense to me

Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:34 pm

Your numbers sound about right to me based on my 2017 S with a 30kWh battery.

I'd guess the discrepancies are due to a combination of factors including

- the odometer is probably optimistic so the kWh/mi is probably optimistic too
- there is some reserved beyond 0% SOC that isn't being taken into account, LeafSpy might show this
- as you mentioned the battery is 40kWh nominal and not all 40kWh are available to more the car

Bottom line, your car sounds fine and the instrumentation is just not that accurate.

alozzy
Posts: 1653
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Miles per kWh not making sense to me

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:53 pm

I think the explanation is that you didn't reset your miles/kWh stats before starting the trip.

That value is averaged out since the last reset, so it includes all the stop and go city driving, where the LEAF is super efficient.

Next time you take a similar trip, reset that miles/kWh metric and you should find that, at the end of the highway trip, your miles/kWh is closer to 4 miles/kWh (155 miles / 38 kWh)
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15179
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Miles per kWh not making sense to me

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:27 pm

minitoleaf wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:54 pm
Miles / kWh not making any sense to me.

I have a 2019 40kwh Leaf, and I drive in Seattle Washington. The way I check my range performance is to divide miles driven by battery percentage used.

For Example: I recently charged to 100% and immediately drove 137 miles, about 2/3 freeway at 60 mph and the rest around 45 mph on secondary roads. At the end of this trip the remaining battery registered 12%. So I figure 137 divided by 88 (percentage battery used) = 1.55. Or 155 miles of range had I driven the car all the way down to 0%.

Whenever I drive in temperate weather with no rain, and no need to use cabin heating or air conditioning I get 1.49 to 1.55 miles per 1 % of battery. In other words spot on Nissan’s claim of 150 miles from a 40 kWh battery.

But if I look at my Leaf’s Miles per kWH meter it typically shows 4.7 to 5.1 m/kWh for the same driving in temperate weather with no cabin heat/air conditioning. At the low end of 4.7, my Leaf would only be using 32 kWh of a full battery to produce 150 miles. At 5.1 kWh my car would only utilize 29.4 kWh. I would think a 40 kWh battery manages itself so that at least 35 kWh is dedicated to driving the car. If so that would produce 178.5 miles of range.

What gives??

Thanks for listening, Scott Newcombe
Are you using LEAF Spy?
Answer; no because LEAF Spy would never display 100% in any normal situation.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... -test.html

The GOM displays usable range with a heavy does of Nissan conservatism. It ranges from 100 to zero % but as we should know, the car does not stop dead in its tracks when it hits zero %. In fact, it doesn't even go into turtle mode and your LEAF has as much energy in it as the Gen One LEAF had at the first low battery warning.

Now if that is all there is, we could work with that. But the GOM isn't linear. LEAF Spy shows actual SOC which means you not only never see 100%, you won't see zero % either since both would be highly detrimental to the pack and even Nissan was smart enough to avoid that.

So I did a range test recording each tick of the GOM from 100% to Zero. LEAF Spy went from 98.3% to 8%

The TLDR version

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Tidbits

SOC match at 88%

Range match at 59% GOM, 63% LEAF Spy

FYI; I drove 177 miles from Yakima over Chinook Pass to Centralia on a single charge in my 40
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 15, 235.1mi, 93.12% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

webeleafowners
Posts: 1164
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Miles per kWh not making sense to me

Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:25 am

That is impressive mileage for a 40 KWh leaf. May I ask what kind of highway/speed conditions you had. Next spring depending on events we may be bringing a 2018 or 2019 40 KWh leaf from LA to BC. Curious how that’s going to go. :). Planning on doing it in 4 days so no rush.
2020 Model 3 Tesla. AWD with FSD. Deep metallic blue. Our daily driver.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh Culis Red. Sold. Was my daily driver. Loved that car.
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

minitoleaf
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:25 am
Delivery Date: 29 May 2019
Leaf Number: 313582
Location: Seattle WA

Re: Miles per kWh not making sense to me

Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:36 am

***That is impressive mileage for a 40 KWh leaf. May I ask what kind of highway/speed conditions you had. Next spring depending on events we may be bringing a 2018 or 2019 40 KWh leaf from LA to BC. Curious how that’s going to go. :). Planning on doing it in 4 days so no rush***

The highway driving was mostly 60 mph and occasionally 65 mph, along I5 in Western Washington State. I stayed in the right lane and had company from other drivers who did not join the 80 mph demons jockeying in the other lanes. Again, this particular trip was 137 miles and ended with the battery display showing 12% charge left. The non freeway driving was typically 45 to 55 mph and covered about 1/3 of the journey. The weather was dry and about 55 degrees F.

For what it is worth my Leaf (SV model) has always shown me 150 mile range in benign weather. Sometimes a bit better than 150. During the colder winter weather it drops quite a bit. Then the range is 110 to 120 miles. Lots of rain, use of cabin heat, cold temps certainly have an effect. When calculating range I ignore GOM. And since I can't make the Leaf's "Miles Per kWh meter" pencil out to something sensible I ignore it as well.

Best of luck with your LA to BC Leaf adventure. I really like this car and won't ever go back to driving a internal combustion vehicle.

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Marktm
Gold Member
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Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
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Location: Houston, TX

Re: Miles per kWh not making sense to me

Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:55 am

webeleafowners wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:25 am
That is impressive mileage for a 40 KWh leaf. May I ask what kind of highway/speed conditions you had. Next spring depending on events we may be bringing a 2018 or 2019 40 KWh leaf from LA to BC. Curious how that’s going to go. :). Planning on doing it in 4 days so no rush.
Agreed - my 2012 Leaf will not do much better than 4 miles/kWh under the most favorable conditions of a mix of suburban with some 60-65 mph highway - sort of "milking it". I use LeafSpy set a 4m/kWh and the range estimate is always about spot on when climate control is off - over thousands of miles of this "mix". I've never been able to approach mid to high 4's under any conditions. I don't use heat and use of A/C during summer will knock it down to the mid to high 3's (m/kWh).

Of course, the actual range will be mostly influenced by the status/health of the battery, which is quite well defined by LeafSpy!
2012 Leaf SL; 46,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

SageBrush
Posts: 5414
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Miles per kWh not making sense to me

Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:12 am

Are you resetting the trip meter each time ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15179
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Miles per kWh not making sense to me

Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:32 am

Marktm wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:55 am
webeleafowners wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:25 am
That is impressive mileage for a 40 KWh leaf. May I ask what kind of highway/speed conditions you had. Next spring depending on events we may be bringing a 2018 or 2019 40 KWh leaf from LA to BC. Curious how that’s going to go. :). Planning on doing it in 4 days so no rush.
Agreed - my 2012 Leaf will not do much better than 4 miles/kWh under the most favorable conditions of a mix of suburban with some 60-65 mph highway - sort of "milking it". I use LeafSpy set a 4m/kWh and the range estimate is always about spot on when climate control is off - over thousands of miles of this "mix". I've never been able to approach mid to high 4's under any conditions. I don't use heat and use of A/C during summer will knock it down to the mid to high 3's (m/kWh).

Of course, the actual range will be mostly influenced by the status/health of the battery, which is quite well defined by LeafSpy!
You actually probably are unless you conform to the 36 PSI mandate. If you are not resetting the meter daily, you really don't know how you are doing. The day to day variance can be quite large.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 15, 235.1mi, 93.12% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

minitoleaf
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:25 am
Delivery Date: 29 May 2019
Leaf Number: 313582
Location: Seattle WA

Re: Miles per kWh not making sense to me

Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:09 am

Thanks to several of you who advise reseting meters. I don't always do this, although on the specific trip detailed in my post, both the "miles per kWH" metric and the trip meter were reset. So the values I got for those two readings were unique to this single 137 mile journey.

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