jopeters
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Building New Home - Required Wiring for Charger

Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:38 pm

Ok, so I am confused what the difference is between 220V 30 amp or 240V 40 amp circuit? How will it affect my charging or bill or does it even matter?

Nissan states:

Home charging dock will require a 220/240V 40 amp dedicated circuit connected to a breaker. The charging dock will need to be hard-wired directly to the circuit by a certified electrician.

I have requested a 240V 40 amp plug and that what will be installed in my garage for my future leaf. What are the benefits of a 240V 40 amp over a 220V 30 amp? I know I could go with a portable charger, but since our house is being being built thought I would install one along with the circuit.

Would can I expect the folks that Nissan contracts out to charge me since I already have the wiring in place? Are there fixed chargers out there ( not portable ) that I could order and have electrician install. (would it be cheaper that way).

Just need yal advice....

jopeters
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Re: Building New Home - Required Wiring for Charger

Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:41 pm

Would the 240V 40amp outlet work with the evseupgrade.com device? If I chose that route?

Volusiano
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Re: Building New Home - Required Wiring for Charger

Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:50 pm

jopeters wrote:Would the 240V 40amp outlet work with the evseupgrade.com device? If I chose that route?
Yes, for sure. It's more than enough because the Rev2 evseupgrade only draws 16A max.

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davewill
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Re: Building New Home - Required Wiring for Charger

Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:51 pm

jopeters wrote:Ok, so I am confused what the difference is between 220V 30 amp or 240V 40 amp circuit? How will it affect my charging or bill or does it even matter? ...
The LEAF only draws a maximum of 16a at 240v. This means that 20a 240v circuit is adequate for the LEAF to charge at it's maximum rate. However, the EVSE that Nissan "recommends" supports charging at a 30a rate. Therefore the circuit it's connected to has to be rated at 40a, even though your current LEAF will never use that extra capacity.

None of this affects the actual amount of electricity you use, or your bill, just the amount of money you have to spend doing the wiring. Many people already have unused 20a or 30a circuits in their garage, for a dryer or water heater for example, but not 40a. Also, some people have the capacity in their electric supply panels to add the smaller circuits, but not the 40a.

The evseupgrade.com device draws a max of 16a (just like the LEAF) and can be run on a 240v 20a circuit. You can certainly plug it into a 40a circuit, however.
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jopeters
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Re: Building New Home - Required Wiring for Charger

Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:00 pm

My builder says it 220V 40 Amp is that what Nissan requires for their charger? I just don't want to pay for their expensive wiring, when I could have it done when the home is being built.

Volusiano
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Re: Building New Home - Required Wiring for Charger

Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:03 pm

jopeters wrote:Ok, so I am confused what the difference is between 220V 30 amp or 240V 40 amp circuit? How will it affect my charging or bill or does it even matter?
40A wiring can carry more current than 30A and therefore allows you to accommodate higher power charge stations that will work with the future 6.6kW chargers in the Leaf. It won't make your electricity bill any worse. It's just that the 40A wiring is thicker and cost only a little bit more than the 30A wiring.

If you plan to have a stationary EVSE that has 30A rating, you cannot use the 240V 30A circuit because there's no built-in margin left. So instead you must use the next step up, the 240V 40A circuit.

It doesn't make any sense to consider installing a 240V 30A circuit. I would install a 240V 40A circuit at the minimum. I would even consider running even thicker wiring (6 awg) even if you use 40A breaker for now, just in case you want to upgrade to 50A circuit later on when more powerful/faster chargers are available in future electric cars.

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davewill
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Re: Building New Home - Required Wiring for Charger

Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:07 pm

jopeters wrote:My builder says it 220V 40 Amp is that what Nissan requires for their charger? I just don't want to pay for their expensive wiring, when I could have it done when the home is being built.
Yes, 40a is required for the Nissan (Aerovironment) EVSE. But be warned that people who have gotten quotes from Aerovironment have STILL been quoted $2200 for the install, even when the builder already had the correct wiring in place. In your shoes, I would have the 40a wiring put in during construction, and buy your EVSE from someone else. There are a few good choices, now. Then either install yourself, or if you're not handy, have an electrician come out and connect the wires up.
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Nekota
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Re: Building New Home - Required Wiring for Charger

Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:50 pm

The NEC for EVSE calls for 32 amps for level 2 charging which ends up requiring #8 wire for 40 amperes continuous duty.

NEC 625.14 Ratings ...

Level 2. This is the primary and preferred method of EV charging at both private and public facilities. It requires special equipment and connection to an electric power supply dedicated to EV charging. The voltage of this connection is either 240 volts or 208 volts. The maximum load is 32 amperes (7.7 kVA at 240 volts or 6.7 kVA at 208 volts). The minimum circuit and over current rating for this connection is 40 amperes (32 X 1.25 = 40 amperes) . Electric vehicles are treated as continuous loads. See 625.21 for sizing over
current protection devices.
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jopeters
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Re: Building New Home - Required Wiring for Charger

Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:59 pm

Volusiano wrote:
jopeters wrote:Ok, so I am confused what the difference is between 220V 30 amp or 240V 40 amp circuit? How will it affect my charging or bill or does it even matter?
40A wiring can carry more current than 30A and therefore allows you to accommodate higher power charge stations that will work with the future 6.6kW chargers in the Leaf. It won't make your electricity bill any worse. It's just that the 40A wiring is thicker and cost only a little bit more than the 30A wiring.

If you plan to have a stationary EVSE that has 30A rating, you cannot use the 240V 30A circuit because there's no built-in margin left. So instead you must use the next step up, the 240V 40A circuit.

It doesn't make any sense to consider installing a 240V 30A circuit. I would install a 240V 40A circuit at the minimum. I would even consider running even thicker wiring (6 awg) even if you use 40A breaker for now, just in case you want to upgrade to 50A circuit later on when more powerful/faster chargers are available in future electric cars.
What gauge is 6 awg??

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Building New Home - Required Wiring for Charger

Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:02 pm

6awg is 6 gauge. American Wire Gauge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

All the crazy big quotes for a charger install are just GOUGING !!!

My charger is on the opposite side of the wall of my supply/breaker box, so it was a very simple install. But, several years ago, I had a 240/50amp plug put in for a welder. The guy charged me $175 (and this is in southern California, where nothing is cheap).

The BLINK charger literally hangs on the wall with four lag screws, and plugs in. Mine was installed by Baker Electric under the Ecotality project, and is NOT hard wired.

Very, very simple install. One hour-ish.

I would not get the big clunky wall hanging charger unless I had a 2013 LEAF with a 6.6kWh charger (27.5 amps, plus heating losses up to about 31.5 amp current draw from the wall).

Have a guy put in a 240volt/50amp breaker, wiring, and wall plug. Then, when you get the car, send the charger in for the 16 amp upgrade.

YOU'RE DONE !! Total cost, $300-ish for the EVSEupgrade.com, and $200 for the plug in the wall.

You're also ready for a 6.6 down the road, or even something a bit more robust (7.7?).
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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