mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27trips

just dropped off my Leaf for 1st 6 month maintenance. I charted the last 27 trips - and we only averaged 67 miles per charge in city driving. These were all roundtrips, so minor elevation changes shouldn't matter. Everything I read before we bought said Nissan was confident about the 100 mile range. Nissan's announcements, etc. Got into argument with Nissan service today - he said Nissan NEVER said it'd get 100 miles. Now I see all this new discussion about 40% variations, etc. Those were never indicated before we bought. Now, as temperature gets lower here in Oregon, I'll bet we'll get 50 miles or less per charge. Dealer service said Nissan will not install a battery heater on 2011 models. Any class action suits ore "lemon law" returns out there on Nissan Leafs?

You mean you drove it down near turtle and only got 67 miles? How low was the fuel gauge when the 67 miles finished? Charging to 100% or 80%? How much elevation gain (it makes a difference, even if round trip)? Using the heater or A/C? ECO mode or not? How aggressive is your driving style?

Bottom line is that your mileage is right in line with EPA official rating of 73 miles. The 100 miles is for the LA-04 cycle. The least bit of research on your part would have shown this.

gartaylor said:

Got into argument with Nissan service today - he said Nissan NEVER said it'd get 100 miles. Now I see all this new discussion about 40% variations, etc. Those were never indicated before we bought. Now, as temperature gets lower here in Oregon, I'll bet we'll get 50 miles or less per charge. Dealer service said Nissan will not install a battery heater on 2011 models. Any class action suits ore "lemon law" returns out there on Nissan Leafs?

Click to expand...

Gary, your sentiment is understandable. I was quite disappointed two weeks after I bought the car, especially about the fact that Nissan would not tell me how much of the total pack capacity was usable and what the 12 bars on the battery gauge represented. Their customer support was tightlipped and quite useless and if it wasn't for this forum, I would likely be still scratching my head.

Your service manager was incorrect, Nissan stated that the Leaf has 100 miles real-world range frequently and repeatedly. Unfortunately, the EPA rated its range at 73 miles, and that's what the sticker on the car said when we purchased it. I'm not sure if there was anything actionable from a legal standpoint, but it certainly doen't make me want to buy another car from Nissan. Although I'm fairly confident that the technology they used in the car will perform well over the years, I don't have a very favorable opinion of them as a corporate entity so far.

About the battery heater: it's unlikely to help you in any way. It would only turn on if the car was parked in very low temperatures for an extended period of time.

Mark Perry said:

Our engineers have developed a lithium-ion battery that goes 100 miles of real-world
range. We are completely confident in its performance, its durability and the amount of time it will work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0LkwBgQdtg&t=117" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click to expand...

Since you, like me, got your LEAF six or more months ago, did you get the software update that Nissan recommended in early April? It was included in cars delivered in late April or May, as memory serves. That update is known to make it appear that you have less charge remaining than you really have. In effect, it created a "reserve tank" of one or more bars.

How do you define "empty" when you measure your 67 miles? Are you getting down to the first or second "low battery" warning or are you considering yourself empty when you use up the last white bar, leaving two red bars remaining?

Your range is at the very low end of what is being reported by most owners on this forum. If hills are not the reason, then use of the heater (a big power draw), freeway driving above 65 mph, and aggressive acceleration and braking are likely causes. You should be able to get 75 miles or more with conservative driving on level roads. I have friends who have driven 100 miles or more, including freeway driving, but carefully and keeping economical driving in mind.

Take a look at Tony Williams' excellent range guide in the thread referenced below. Your driving range should fit in with the chart that Tony made. The key is to keep the energy economy scale on your main dash display. If you're driving at 4.0 mi/kWh, you should be getting over 80 miles to Empty.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295&hilit=range+thumb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lastly, as I'm sure many here will tell you, you signed a paper when you took delivery of the car that said that you understood that the LEAF's range is variable, dependent on driving style, temperature and use of climate control. You have no grounds to sue Nissan.

EDIT: Taking range readings on round trips does not eliminate the effect of hills. Driving up hills reduces range significantly. Driving down hills replaces some, but not all, energy with regen braking. But both uphills and downhills cause energy drain compared to the same distance on flat terrain. If your routes include hills, even if they are round trips, you are using more energy.

+1

What is your miles/kWh average? Is your car parked outside? Where in Oregon do you live?

Gar, that doesn't sound right at all. I only charge to 80% and I easily get over 100 miles on that charge in city driving (38mph). Since you said yours is city driving, are you using ECO all the time? Make sure you check your energy screen to make sure your heater isn't on. Granted, I'm a hypermiler, and very rarely use more than one bubble on the meter. But city driving is where you can really increase your m/kW h. This battery pack has exceeded my expectations. I expected to easily get 100 miles on a 100% charge, but was surprised to easily get 100 miles on an 80% charge when not using the HVAC. Like today, RT was 60 miles on all city streets and at one point (before the elevation rise) was at 6.8m/kW h. When we arrived home, I had 6.5m/kW h (dash) with 2 bars showing but actually had about 4 left and could have driven another 50 miles. Ignore the GOM and the bars and like someone else said, make a copy of Tony's range chart.

FWIW, Edmunds did a test and confirmed the bitter end after 132.0 miles. See http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2011/05/2011-nissan-leaf-driving-it-to-the-bitter-end.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

cwerdna said:

FWIW, Edmunds did a test and confirmed the bitter end after 132.0 miles. See http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2011/05/2011-nissan-leaf-driving-it-to-the-bitter-end.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Click to expand...

LOL, if I wanted to, I could smash that record to smithereens just driving on city streets. In their road test, they set their cruise to 35mph. Therefore, they had no use of 'N' or regen. It makes a tremendous difference when you use 'N' and or regen vs. neither.

LEAFfan said:

cwerdna said:

FWIW, Edmunds did a test and confirmed the bitter end after 132.0 miles. See http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2011/05/2011-nissan-leaf-driving-it-to-the-bitter-end.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Click to expand...

LOL, if I wanted to, I could smash that record to smithereens just driving on city streets. In their road test, they set their cruise to 35mph. Therefore, they had no use of 'N' or regen. It makes a tremendous difference when you use 'N' and or regen vs. neither.

Click to expand...

You really think so? Putting energy into the battery via regen and taking it back out will incur losses from conversion, electrical resistances, etc. The coasting in 'N' case might be interesting though...

cwerdna said:

You really think so? Putting energy into the battery via regen and taking it back out will incur losses from conversion, electrical resistances, etc. The coasting in 'N' case might be interesting though...

Click to expand...

Absolutely! The proof is in the pudding. Without even trying, I hit 7.1m/kW h on a 15 mile trip on city streets with a top speed of 38mph. If I had gone 35 instead, it would have been higher, over 150 miles. I used ECO all the time, regen, and 'N'.

cwerdna said:

You really think so? Putting energy into the battery via regen and taking it back out will incur losses from conversion, electrical resistances, etc. The coasting in 'N' case might be interesting though...

Click to expand...

Of course.

gartaylor, I hope you read through what people have said here, and come back and post again, answering some of the questions we have asked. One caution, LEAFfan is, as he admitted, a hypermiler. I don't think anyone else has gotten mileage as high as his, so please don't conclude you have a lemon based on what he has said. My experience, heavily weighted toward very short trips, is much closer to yours than to his. But I go back every once in a while and reread that four-page document we all had to sign before they would let us take the car. It is called "2011 LEAF Customer Disclosure Form". I strongly recommend you dig that out and read it before trying to argue with Nissan people. As Boomer23 said above, it will convince you that you have no grounds for a class action suit.

Also pay close attention to the questions Stoaty and Boomer23 have asked about your definition of miles per charge. It may well be that you are not using the battery's full capacity.

Ray

I don't seem to do very well on city streets either. If I did have to drive them, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get the 80-85 miles I figure I could get on the highway (based on what's been left traditionally after my normal commute). But I also doubt it'd be as little as 67 miles.

My trip odometer + guess-0-meter usually adds to 70 or 80 miles near end of charge. Many say we can go an additional 5 to 10 past the miles shown so maybe 75 to 90 miles real range without trying too hard. I honestly think I can get 100 with a modest effort. Climate control can make a significant difference as disclosed by Nissan a long time ago. Range falls well within my expectations.

I would have to work my LEAF pretty hard to only get 67 miles per 100% charge. Yesterday I drove for 80 miles and still had one bar and 9 miles showing on the Guess-o-Meter. I'm sure I could have hit close to 100 miles before turtle (which I've never done). My drive is probably 70% freeway and 30% city (although the freeway part can be as fast as 70 and also slow down to city street levels pretty often).

The EPA rates the Lead at 73 miles and they are pretty close to what the average driver gets.. so the OP is not too far from what he should get.. he is probably doing a lot better now if he has some common sense, but there are hard headed people out there that refuse to change at all how they drive, and there is nothing wrong about that.

The problem with any range anecdotes that folks relate on this forum is that they tend to lack specifics, including the original post. We don't even know what parameters the OP is using to proclaim 67 miles; is it the GuessOmeter range? ...67 miles to walking? ... to some arbitrary fuel bar, or battery warning? We have no idea.

Yes, I can easily get 67 miles per 100% charge; just hop on the freeway, and crank it up to about 73mph, and viola, I'm walking 67 miles later.

This gentleman is in an area where it gets chilly. We would need to know the temperature to even give a estimate better than the crazy GuessOmeter.

Nissan has us sign all the mileage disclosure stuff just_for_guys_like_this.... I'm gunna sue. I'm amazed when any offshore company wants to do business here, and of course they wouldn't if they didn't think they'd make tons of money.

Not withstanding the marketing statements of real world 100 miles (that are clearly wrong), Nissan and the US government agency that requires that big sticker on the window (the Monroney sticker) make sure the consumer knows the energy efficiency of the product they are buying.

The car is not for everybody. I hope you can sell it, or trade it for a car that will work for you. Or you can do it the all American way.... sue !!! (which I sincerely hope costs you a lot, and gets you nothing)

gartaylor said:

.... I charted the last 27 trips - and we only averaged 67 miles per charge in city driving. .....

Click to expand...

Are you using Carwings to chart all this? The online Nissan service is great to monitor all your driving. Plus I think the miles per kWh is a better measure from Leaf owner to Leaf owner. For the last month and a half I have been 3.7 miles/kWh. It had NOT move up or down. But my work commute is down hill in the AM and back up the hill in the evening.

The OP must have closed his eyes when he signed the 4 page document describing in detail just how variable range could be. Really, no one should be crying ignorance on this issue.