Mauileaf
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Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:47 am
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Re: 100% trickle charge gets me 67 miles. Day 3

Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:52 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Mauileaf wrote:I don't understand your question.

oh crap! i didnt see the post above about the 20/50 amp breaker thing.

ya, that is weird. i would take that plug out and put in the 20 amp plug (cheaper) and see what gauge wire you got running to it
haha..glad I snapped that photo! I'll call my landlord and see if he even remembers why. I'm not about the pull that thing. Definitely not qualified to do so.

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planet4ever
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Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: 100% trickle charge gets me 67 miles. Day 3

Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:44 am

Mauileaf wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:i would take that plug out and put in the 20 amp plug (cheaper) and see what gauge wire you got running to it
haha..glad I snapped that photo! I'll call my landlord and see if he even remembers why. I'm not about the pull that thing. Definitely not qualified to do so.
I think 50a is typical for welding, which is what the handwritten label in the breaker box says. Who knows how you ended up with a 20a breaker there, but treat it as a gift. 20a is what you want if you are going to get an EVSEupgrade. I don't think you need to worry about wire gauge; it might or might not support 50a, but it should be good for at least 20a.

Now, as to your "definitely not qualified" comment, it's really not that big a deal. Talk to someone at a hardware store; tell them you have a 50a outlet in a wide box and want to put in an L6-20 outlet instead. They can show you the hardware (maybe $25) and how to wire it. All you need is that voltmeter you want to get, straight blade and Phillips blade screwdrivers, and possibly needle nose pliers. It's a ten minute job for you, or $150 for an electrician, your choice.

Ray
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dgpcolorado
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Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: 100% trickle charge gets me 67 miles. Day 3

Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:46 am

Mauileaf wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Mauileaf wrote:I don't understand your question.

oh crap! i didnt see the post above about the 20/50 amp breaker thing.

ya, that is weird. i would take that plug out and put in the 20 amp plug (cheaper) and see what gauge wire you got running to it
haha..glad I snapped that photo! I'll call my landlord and see if he even remembers why. I'm not about the pull that thing. Definitely not qualified to do so.
Pictures are good! We so often get questions without enough information and have to guess at what the poster really has to work with. Yes, that 20 Amp double pole breaker is strange for a 14-50 "Welding" outlet. But it would be fine for a 16 Amp upgraded EVSE.
planet4ever wrote:I think 50a is typical for welding, which is what the handwritten label in the breaker box says. Who knows how you ended up with a 20a breaker there, but treat it as a gift. 20a is what you want if you are going to get an EVSEupgrade. I don't think you need to worry about wire gauge; it might or might not support 50a, but it should be good for at least 20a.

Now, as to your "definitely not qualified" comment, it's really not that big a deal. Talk to someone at a hardware store; tell them you have a 50a outlet in a wide box and want to put in an L6-20 outlet instead. They can show you the hardware (maybe $25) and how to wire it. All you need is that voltmeter you want to get, straight blade and Phillips blade screwdrivers, and possibly needle nose pliers. It's a ten minute job for you, or $150 for an electrician, your choice.

Ray
If Mauileaf isn't comfortable changing out the outlet in his rental house, wouldn't it just be simpler to use a 14-50 to L6-20 adapter? Not as elegant as putting in an L6-20 outlet, but should work fine as long as the breaker and wiring are ok.

I certainly wouldn't use the outlet without testing it with a voltmeter and verifying that it really is connected to that 20 Amp breaker (by flipping the breaker to see if the power shuts off to the outlet). The usual "be careful" stuff.
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Mauileaf
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:47 am
Delivery Date: 06 Sep 2012

Re: 100% trickle charge gets me 67 miles. Day 3

Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:03 am

all good points-will work on this when I have some free time and keep you guys posted...but I think I am going with an EVSE upgrade as soon as they email me back, or however their process works to ship out here on the island.

plus I contacted Blink for a free home unit. I'd think those on the android/iphone apps in need of charging going up to the mountain can come up and charge, in return for Blink it's free marketing out here on Maui. There is only one on Oahu at the moment.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: 100% trickle charge gets me 67 miles. Day 3

Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:19 am

the adapters by far the easiest way but changing the plug it's a lot cheaper. I take the plug to match the EVSE upgrade plug for about $5.

ellen mind I put a meter in line so I could monster how much charge I was using so change the plug while I was doing it was kind of a no brainer anyway
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LEAFer
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Re: 100% trickle charge gets me 67 miles. Day 3

Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:06 pm

I hope they didn't have a 20A breaker originally and changed out its original 20A receptacle for the 14-50 ! I.e. the wire gauge running in the wall might only support 20A (good enough for a current LEAF).

Also ... minor gripe ... the 14-50 is installed "upside-down". Most angle-plugs you would find to plug into that 14-50R like to have the groud pin at the top instead, so that the cable can hang down. Not really a problem ... since you're likely going to swap it out anyway.
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Mauileaf
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Re: 100% trickle charge gets me 67 miles. Day 3

Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:20 pm

Landlord comes into town tomorrow and is actually shocked about the 20a breaker with it being marked 50a

wwhitney
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Location: Berkeley, CA

Re: 100% trickle charge gets me 67 miles. Day 3

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:13 pm

Mauileaf wrote:Landlord comes into town tomorrow and is actually shocked about the 20a breaker with it being marked 50a
A little background from the National Electrical Code sounds like it would be helpful:

1) First, if you have a circuit with just a single receptacle on it, the only rule about the size of the receptacle is that it is at least as big as the circuit size. So there's nothing wrong with a 50 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit.

2) Second, welder circuits (Article 630) are a bit unusual. Because welders often have a duty cycle of less than 100%, you calculate a reduced conductor size. So a 50 amp welder with a low enough duty cycle might only require 25 amp conductors. Moreover, the small conductor rule 240.4(D), which says for example that #12 Cu shouldn't have a breaker larger than 20 amps on it, doesn't apply to some special applications, including welders. So you could use the full 25 amp capacity of #12 Cu for a welder. Lastly, the breaker can be up to 200% of the conductor capacity, so you could have a 50 amp breaker with #12 conductors on it.

3) Someone not familiar with the above or wishing to repurpose the circuit might have come along and replaced the 50 amp breaker with a 20 amp breaker.

Cheers, Wayne

Mauileaf
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:47 am
Delivery Date: 06 Sep 2012

Re: 100% trickle charge gets me 67 miles. Day 3

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:24 pm

wwhitney wrote:
Mauileaf wrote:Landlord comes into town tomorrow and is actually shocked about the 20a breaker with it being marked 50a
A little background from the National Electrical Code sounds like it would be helpful:

1) First, if you have a circuit with just a single receptacle on it, the only rule about the size of the receptacle is that it is at least as big as the circuit size. So there's nothing wrong with a 50 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit.

2) Second, welder circuits (Article 630) are a bit unusual. Because welders often have a duty cycle of less than 100%, you calculate a reduced conductor size. So a 50 amp welder with a low enough duty cycle might only require 25 amp conductors. Moreover, the small conductor rule 240.4(D), which says for example that #12 Cu shouldn't have a breaker larger than 20 amps on it, doesn't apply to some special applications, including welders. So you could use the full 25 amp capacity of #12 Cu for a welder. Lastly, the breaker can be up to 200% of the conductor capacity, so you could have a 50 amp breaker with #12 conductors on it.

3) Someone not familiar with the above or wishing to repurpose the circuit might have come along and replaced the 50 amp breaker with a 20 amp breaker.

Cheers, Wayne
Turns out that receptacle was used for freezers (ice box).

Mauileaf
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:47 am
Delivery Date: 06 Sep 2012

Re: 100% trickle charge gets me 67 miles. Day 3

Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:36 pm

For some reason I feel restricted! I drive 40 miles rountrip. 80% charge and have 4 bars left after 1200ft climb. It's like a video game?! Can I really do this, or am I just 12 hours overworked and need to sleep. But no...I'm leafing out to you. Lol

Or do I just need to order that dang level 2 already

How often do you use your leaf after a commute to work?

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