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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:45 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:13 am
Do any of the hydrogen fan boys know how much hydrogen is going to cost?
The only way I can figure people are going for this is they have to think hydrogen is going to be free or so cheap it's almost free.

Everyone is aware that sustainable H2 has to be brought down in price to be comparable to gas/mile. DoE's target is $4/kg, untaxed, which would be below the per mile cost of gas for most vehicles in most markets. Whether they can get there remains to be seen, but that's why they and others are spending R&D money to reduce the cost/increase the efficiency of electrolysis, and are also exploring other avenues. See https://www.greencarcongress.com/hydrogen_production/ for examples.

In the meantime, H2 from excess renewables is essentially free, not counting the cost of the electrolyzer etc.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oilpan4
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:53 pm

The most logical use for "renewable hydrogen" would be to replace natural gas made industrial hydrogen.
At $4 per kg it would catch on like a wild fire in California.
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GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:01 pm

That's one of the uses now in early deployment.

I occasionally post lab results, so here's one with the usual caveat that most such lab results will never go beyond a paper let alone be commercialized:
Study: hydrogen boride nanosheets are a promising hydrogen carrier; 8wt% under ambient conditions
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... 28-hb.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:33 pm

GCC:
Hyundai Motor accelerates hydrogen technology development through 3 strategic investments
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... daih2.html


The three companies are involved in PVD coatings, electrochemical - thermally active chemical water-splitting, and lower pressure H2 storage respectively.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:04 pm

Two via GCC:
PowerCell develops new version of MS-100 fuel cell system for electrification on land and at sea
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... cell2.html


For marine/off-road applications, 100kW, Minimum lifetime 20k hours.


PowerCell signs development contract for 3.2 MW maritime fuel cell system with Havyard Group
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... cell1.html


For a Norwegian passenger ship ioperating along the coast from Bergen to Kirkenes, using (presumably 16) 200kW stacks in parallel.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:02 pm

GCC:
Blue World Technologies signs strategic cooperation agreement with Chinese EV manufacturer AIWAYS; methanol fuel cell vehicles
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... world.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:47 pm

GCC:
ExxonMobil, FuelCell Energy expand agreement to optimize carbonate fuel cell technology for large-scale carbon capture
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... -fcel.html


ExxonMobil and FuelCell Energy, Inc. signed a new, two-year expanded joint-development agreement to further enhance carbonate fuel cell technology for the purpose of capturing carbon dioxide from industrial facilities.

The agreement, worth up to $60 million, will focus efforts on optimizing the core technology, overall process integration and large-scale deployment of carbon capture solutions. ExxonMobil is exploring options to conduct a pilot test of next-generation fuel cell carbon capture solution at one of its operating sites.

FuelCell Energy’s proprietary technology uses carbonate fuel cells to efficiently capture and concentrate carbon dioxide streams from large industrial sources. Combustion exhaust is directed to the fuel cell, which produces power while capturing and concentrating carbon dioxide for permanent storage. . . .

Laboratory tests indicated that applying carbonate fuel cells to natural gas power generation could capture carbon dioxide more efficiently than current, conventional CCS technology. The early research indicated that by applying this new technology, more than 90% of a natural gas power plant’s carbon dioxide emissions could be captured. . . .

Using fuel cells to capture carbon dioxide from power plants can result in a more efficient separation of carbon dioxide from power plant exhaust with an increased output of electricity. Power plant exhaust is fed into the cathode side of the fuel cell (which is deployed at the power plant), replacing the ambient air used in typical applications.

The CO2 in the exhaust is transferred to the anode side, where it is much more concentrated and easy to separate. The CO2 from the anode exhaust stream is purified by chilling the stream to extract CO2 liquid. This enables a cost effective capture as the purified CO2 can then be transported by pipeline for Enhanced Oil Recovery applications or underground storage. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:21 pm

GCC:
Plug Power expands hydrogen supply chain partner network in Spain with CLH
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... 27-pp.html

Plug Power Inc., a provider of hydrogen fuel cell systems and fueling solutions enabling e-mobility, announced a new agreement with Spanish hydrogen production and distributor Compañía Logística de Hidrocarburos (CLH).

Through the agreement, CLH will develop hydrogen production assets and downstream markets in Spain, in the industrial, mobility and power production/storage sectors for distribution to Plug Power customers throughout Europe.

The CLH Group is a leading international company in the transport and storage fuel products in Europe. Through zero emission hydrogen fuel cell system applications commercialized by Plug Power, including industrial material handling, on road commercial fleet vehicles and port applications (air, marine, and rail) in which CLH has a strong presence, both partners expect to impact the growth of the renewable hydrogen market in Spain and Europe. . . .

Plug Power expects its European business to grow by more than 60% per year for the next five years. Plug Power says that its customers are currently the largest users of liquid hydrogen in the United States. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:38 pm

GCC:
Largest pilot plant for CO2-neutral production of hydrogen begins operation at voestalpine site in Linz
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... lpine.html

. . . As part of the EU-funded H2FUTURE project, partners voestalpine, VERBUND, Siemens, Austrian Power Grid, K1-MET and TNO are researching into the industrial production of green hydrogen as a means of replacing fossil fuels in steel production over the long term. . . .

The heart of the plant is a Siemens Silyzer 300 powered by renewable electricity. The plant has a capacity of more than 6 MW, and can produce 1,200 m3 of hydrogen per hour. It will be used to test whether the technology deployed to produce green hydrogen is suitable for use on an industrial scale. Furthermore, the project, which receives €18 million in EU funding, will investigate the potential to provide network services, and potentially compensate for fluctuations in the power grid.

voestalpine is currently investigating the practicality of a hybrid technology to bridge between the existing coke/coal-based blast furnace route and electric arc furnaces powered with green electricity partly generated using green hydrogen. If economically feasible, from today’s perspective this option would reduce the Group’s CO2 emissions by around a third sometime between 2030 and 2035. Over the long-term, voestalpine is striving to successively increase the use of green hydrogen in the steel production process, allowing the Group to reduce its CO2 emissions by a total of over 80% by 2050. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:55 pm

GCC:
CSIRO identifies five key opportunities for hydrogen industry growth in Australia
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... iroh2.html


A report from the Australian national science agency CSIRO has mapped the critical research steps Australia must take to realize a potential 7,600 jobs and $11 billion a year by 2050 from the burgeoning hydrogen industry.

The report found investing in research could solve industry challenges to create five key national opportunities: hydrogen exports; integration of hydrogen into gas networks; transport; electricity systems; and industrial processes.

Steps to translate Australia’s strong hydrogen research capability into a key pillar of the nation’s energy and export profile are laid out in Hydrogen Research Development & Demonstration (RD&D): Priorities and Opportunities for Australia.

Australia’s current hydrogen research footprint includes 23 institutions actively exploring hydrogen in various technology and research areas as well as another 23 hydrogen-specific demonstration projects and research facilities around Australia. . . .


Direct link to report download page:
Hydrogen Research, Development & Demonstration (RD&D)
Priorities and Opportunities for Australia
https://www.csiro.au/en/Showcase/Hydrogen
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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