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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:35 pm

While we're at it, I'll point out that high density (along with mixed-use zoning) allows decreased use of cars rather than an increase, because not only is everything packed closer together, but the greater population density can support better public mass transit - NYC has the lowest rate of car ownership (and also the lowest per capita energy use) of any city in the country because of this. The problem in greater LA is that it's medium density, not just in LA proper but in the surrounding suburbs, or as I've seen it described, "LA surrounded by LA".

The rest of the problems with air pollution, as has been pointed out, are due to a high population, high car ownership, and unfavorable topography combined with the climate, and would be far worse if California hadn't taken the steps we have over the years thanks to laws which allowed us to set higher standards for ourselves, as well as other actions. Any other location dealing with the same issues would be worse off than us, if they lacked the authority we have to take more rigorous measures.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oilpan4
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:13 pm

I think they should be able to screw up their own state as much as they want as long as it doesn't effect other states.

If the fed pulls their ability to set their own emissions standards since they had 50 years to make it work and they are still in last place it will just hasten their transitioning to electric or at least all hybrid car sales that much faster.
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GRA
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:47 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:13 pm
I think they should be able to screw up their own state as much as they want as long as it doesn't effect other states.

If the fed pulls their ability to set their own emissions standards since they had 50 years to make it work and they are still in last place it will just hasten their transitioning to electric or at least all hybrid car sales that much faster.

Your "reasoning" is an example of cognitive dissonance. The only reason YOU could buy a BEV in the US is because of California's imposition of a ZEV mandate. As I understand it, you are claiming that the federal government (under the Trump administration?) will reduce air pollution in California more by loosening the more stringent standards we now have. Does this argument make any sense to you? If so, please do explain why, because it's nonsensical.

Then please also explain why, as you are so against tighter government environmental regulations in your state, you are apparently for even tighter environmental controls in California, including on who can move here, zoning* and so on. These positions, along with the one above, are inherently contradictory.


*Re zoning, I'm with you there, and after a long fight against developers, NIMBYs etc. we're finally starting to win that battle and allow or require higher density, mixed-use development, although at the moment here it's driven more by housing shortages and consequent high housing prices than environmental concerns. But ideas about urban density and related issues are becoming more widespread - here's an example being built in Arizona:
Culdesac Tempe is a car-free housing development for the 'post-car society'
Residents won't be allowed to drive or park personal vehicles on the property
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/12/01/cul ... free-city/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oilpan4
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:13 pm

Yeah that's what I want. All the positives, none of the negatives. I don't think that's unreasonable.
California paves the way for cool new electric vehicle tech, proves wide scale adoption is possible, the state uses less petroleum and everyone benefits.
Seems like an opportunity to lead by example and show the better way instead of leading by force and threat of litigation.

They had their chance to make up their own rules for half a century and they still own the top 6 spots for worst air quality in the countey.
Doing the same thing and expecting different results is insanely.

If the fed lights a fire under the state and throws out their half baked emissions standards. Which are only successful if you consider always coming in last place as being successful then they might actually accomplish something.
They're not going to depopulate the areas around the city, they can't afford to loose the tax revenue so let's be real, that's not happening. That ship has sailed, hit an iceberg and sank. Plus how they zone is very unlikely to effect anything 2 states away.
They can screw up their own state as much as they want as long as it doesn't effect other states.
So it's back to finding a technological solution that doesn't involve hydrogen.

Culdesac tempe sounds pretty cool. If you want that, you should be able to go some where that has it.
Sounds a lot better than endless urban sprawl around a huge city with Carmageddon every single day.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

GRA
Posts: 11197
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:36 pm

Ah, well, I'll stop wasting my time; pretty much everyone else already has. One point, for those who may find it informative: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inversion_(meteorology)
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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