DougWantsALeaf
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Re: General EV sales topic

Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:38 pm

This actually is what excites me about Lucid. With 500 miles of range, as most never drive that far in a day, you can almost do without DC charging all together, providing your L2 at night is fast enough.
2019 S Plus (93.86% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (93.35% SOH) Both Silver
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knightmb
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Re: General EV sales topic

Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:06 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:38 pm
This actually is what excites me about Lucid. With 500 miles of range, as most never drive that far in a day, you can almost do without DC charging all together, providing your L2 at night is fast enough.
For every increase of total mileage, there will always be someone to complain that double should be better and make a case for why they should be able to drive 1,000 miles without having to charge. :lol:
2020 Leaf SL Plus - (Manufacture Date March 2020)
2013 Leaf SV (8 faithful years of service before trade in at 75,679 miles)

LeftieBiker
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Re: General EV sales topic

Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:20 pm

Or, a bit closer to home, someone will complain that they can't buy it because they can't stretch out full length and sleep in it. ;)
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GRA
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Re: General EV sales topic

Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:41 pm

WetEV wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:49 pm
GRA wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:46 pm
WetEV wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:35 pm


Perhaps you might, at least on paper, update your L1 "example" to a BEV built this century?

How would that change the result, if I used the Bolt I drove for four days last October instead of the Think? I would have driven the Bolt farther away, as I in fact did.
I'm wondering how long you can keep this up.

Think was a 20kWh battery car. Bolt was a 60kWh battery car. In 10 to 20 years, I'd expect to see comparative priced 180kWh battery cars.

So you drive 180kWh * 3 miles per kWh * 90% = 486 miles to "prove that L1 isn't convenient" as you can't drive another 30 miles without getting the battery too low.

Or perhaps a trip to the last remote corner of the country without good QC.

I got popcorn.

You continuously choose to miss the point. Once you are arriving home with low range remaining, how much total range the car has is irrelevant to how long it takes to replenish what you need for even a modest trip, as that time is determined by the capacity of the circuit, not the car. It doesn't matter whether that car is from 1921, 2021 or 2121. I have already said (several times) that the radius at which this becomes an issue decreases the percentage of time this is an inconvenience. But since I use a car to take me quite far away from home, that percentage isn't low enough for me, yet. The presence of QCs reasonably close by (once I can rely on them) reduces the inconvenience considerably, but it's still greater than liquid or gas refueling - if I've got to drive the car somewhere to fuel up anyway, then I want the time to be as short as possible. Which is why I'm looking forward to trying the Ionic 5/EV6. Although I expect they'll still be too expensive and they're definitely too short-ranged, the light at the end of the tunnel is growing brighter.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12916
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: General EV sales topic

Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:49 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:20 pm
Or, a bit closer to home, someone will complain that they can't buy it because they can't stretch out full length and sleep in it. ;)

While that's a factor for me, I can't and won't buy it because it costs over $100k. OTOH, my current car cost me $24,344 out the door, and has a guaranteed 400 miles highway range plus reserve in any but awful conditions at 18 years of age. I think Tesla's cancellation of the Plaid + was an admission that they can't do 500 miles yet. Of course, it's not really 500 miles, as we're talking highway, plus allowances for reserve, HVAC, conditions, 80% charge, and degradation. What I want, to completely replace an ICE is at least 4 hours at 80 plus at least a 30 mile reserve, with no more than 30 minutes (20 minutes or less strongly preferred) charging to do it again, for the life of the car, conditions as above. My ICE does that routinely. No BEV let alone an affordable one can do this yet, but they're inching closer.
Last edited by GRA on Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12916
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: General EV sales topic

Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:57 pm

jlv wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:31 pm
I would think that if it really mattered to someone, sometime in the last 20 years they'd have figured out a way to have L2 charging at the place they live (either by working something out with the landlord or moving).

Working something out with the landlord was attempted and may still be possible, but until a ZEV meets my needs so it makes sense to get one, its not going to happen. As for moving, I can walk to all routine errands and bike to work and to the errands farther away, which is why my 18-year old car only has 71k miles on it, almost all road trips, and often sits in my driveway for weeks at a time. I suppose I could move to a location that required me to drive a car to get anywhere and thus justify getting L2 and a PEV, but that would be counter-productive environmentally, physically and financially.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

WetEV
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Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: General EV sales topic

Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:30 pm

GRA wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:41 pm
You continuously choose to miss the point. Once you are arriving home with low range remaining, how much total range the car has is irrelevant to how long it takes to replenish what you need for even a modest trip, as that time is determined by the capacity of the circuit, not the car.
No, I get your point. But your point isn't the whole subject.

I've lived on L1 at home.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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GRA
Posts: 12916
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: General EV sales topic

Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:45 pm

WetEV wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:30 pm
GRA wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:41 pm
You continuously choose to miss the point. Once you are arriving home with low range remaining, how much total range the car has is irrelevant to how long it takes to replenish what you need for even a modest trip, as that time is determined by the capacity of the circuit, not the car.
No, I get your point. But your point isn't the whole subject.

I've lived on L1 at home.


And now you don't, and I've tried it long enough to know it would be constraining for me, albeit fast, convenient, reliable and reasonable cost QCs would eliminate most of that.

If L2 hadn't been a freebie, would you be content with L1 now that you've got a '200' mile BEV, or would of you stick with L1, accept the lower charging efficiency but avoid the hassle?

Speaking of which, via GCC:
Could urban charging deserts hinder ride-hailing EV adoption—and cleaner air?
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... leaner-air

As a lack of Level 2 AC charging infrastructure gets in the way of EV ownership in some urban areas, the lack of fast-charging could slow electric ride-hailing adoption, according to new analysis from the clean-energy advocacy group Rocky Mountain Institute (RMI).

With so many vehicles from the likes of Uber and Lyft on city streets, electrifying ride-hailing will be an important part of reducing emissions. California has already mandated that a certain number of vehicle miles traveled (VMT) are electric starting in 2023. Uber and Lyft have pledged to make their ride-hailing services all-electric by 2030.

Yet meeting anticipated charging demand in Los Angeles would require the local public DC fast-charging network to grow three to six times by 2030, the analysis found.

Using anonymized data from General Motors' defunct Maven Gig (which rented cars to ride-hailing drivers) in L.A., RMI found that EV ride-hailing drivers generally stuck close to areas with existing charging stations.

Those stations tended to be located in higher-income areas, meaning less potential for air-quality improvements from electric ride-hailing in low-income areas, according to the analysis.

EVs put to use in ride hailing deliver more carbon benefits, a previous study sound. So it's especially important to get some of the fastest-charging stations in urban spaces.

Evenly distributing DC fast charging stations across the city would require a major buildout, but it would likely be financially sustainable for charging-network operators, the analysis found. Such an expanded network would see over 30% utilization, "more than enough" to support its construction and operation, according to RMI. . . .

The analysis noted that high site-development costs and unfavorable utility-rate structures still represent major obstacles for DC fast-charging infrastructure expansion. . . .

That means companies like Uber and Lyft may end up having to figure out charging for their drivers. U.K. startup Arrival is supposedly developing an electric car specifically for Uber, but the ride-hailing firm hasn't had much to say about charging.

Alternatively, California announced late last year that it would disperse $20 million to get more EVs to the underserved. The Clean Mobility Operations Voucher Pilot Program (CMO) was empowered to use that money to fund car-sharing and other mobility services using zero-emission vehicles.

Direct link to download report: https://rmi.org/insight/ev-charging-for-all/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
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Re: General EV sales topic

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:56 am

GRA wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:45 pm
I've tried it long enough to know it would be constraining for me
So is walking and bicycling. And breathing.

We all make choices. Yours is to pollute, and then spend your life rationalizing them at MNL.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 4385
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: General EV sales topic

Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:32 am

GRA wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:45 pm
WetEV wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:30 pm
No, I get your point. But your point isn't the whole subject.

I've lived on L1 at home.
And now you don't,
And now I do. Or perhaps I should say the LEAF does. About 40 miles per day, 5 days a week, on L1, for almost two years now.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

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