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GCC:
INEOS to invest more than €2B in electrolysis projects in Europe for green hydrogen production

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/10/20211019-ineos.html


. . . Its first plants will be built in Norway, Germany, and Belgium with investment also planned in the UK and France.

INEOS, through its subsidiary INOVYN, is already Europe’s largest existing operator of electrolysis, the technology necessary to produce green hydrogen for power generation, transportation, and industrial use. The business also has extensive experience in the storage and handling of hydrogen.

The first unit to be built will be a 20MW electrolyzer to produce clean hydrogen through the electrolysis of water, powered by zero-carbon electricity in Norway. This project will lead to a minimum reduction of an estimated 22,000 tonnes of CO2 per year by reducing the carbon footprint of INEOS’ operations at Rafnes and serving as a hub to provide hydrogen to the Norwegian transport sector.

In Germany INEOS plans to build a larger scale 100MW electrolyzer to produce green hydrogen at its Koln site. The development will further support decarbonization of INEOS operations at the site. Hydrogen from the unit will be used in the production of green ammonia.

The Koln project will result in a reduction of carbon emissions of more than 120,000 tonnes per year. It will also open opportunities to develop E-Fuels through Power-to-Methanol applications on an industrial scale.

INEOS is developing other projects in Belgium, France and the UK and the business expects to announce further partnerships with leading organizations involved in the development of new hydrogen applications. . . .

The INEOS hydrogen business will have its headquarters in the UK and aims to build capacity to produce hydrogen across the INEOS network of sites in Europe, in addition to partner sites where hydrogen can accelerate decarbonization of energy.

INEOS also intends to work closely with European Governments to ensure the necessary infrastructure is put in place to facilitate hydrogen’s major role in the new Green Economy.
 
Both GCC:
Hy Stor Energy developing green hydrogen hub in Mississippi

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/10/20211020-hystor.html


Hy Stor Energy LP, together with its strategic partner Connor, Clark & Lunn Infrastructure (CC&L Infrastructure), will develop, commercialize, and operate large-scale, long-duration green hydrogen hubs that will serve as a model for green hydrogen development efforts going forward. The first major project, the Mississippi Clean Hydrogen Hub, is under active development and has multiple sites permitted for hydrogen storage.

The planned scale of the Mississippi Clean Hydrogen Hub is up to 10 times larger than any other green hydrogen project under consideration in the US and would be one of the largest in the world. During its first phase, the Mississippi Clean Hydrogen Hub is expected to produce an estimated 110 million kilograms (kg) of green hydrogen annually and store more than 70 million kg of green hydrogen in its underground salt caverns.

(As a comparison, Air Products’ newly announced blue hydrogen megaproject in Louisiana will produce some 1.8 million kg of blue hydrogen per day. Earlier post.)

Pending regulatory approvals and equipment availability, the hub’s first phase is planned to enter commercial service by 2025.

Hy Stor Energy selected Mississippi to develop its first green hydrogen hub because of the state’s distinct geology, strategic geographic location, abundance of available water and renewable energy from the sun and wind, and collaborative business environment. The region features multiple naturally occurring underground salt formations that can support development of large caverns, allowing for the safe and effective storage of several years’ worth of green hydrogen. These strategic locations are enhanced by the proximity to existing infrastructure including an array of interstate gas transportation pipelines and electric transmission lines, as well as interstate highways, rail lines, deep water ports, and the Mississippi River.




Ballard and Forsee Power to develop & commercialize integrated fuel cell & battery solutions for heavy-duty hydrogen mobility

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/10/20211020-ballard.html


Ballard Power Systems, a world leader in PEM fuel cells, and Forsee Power, a developer of smart battery systems for sustainable electromobility, signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) for a strategic partnership to develop fully integrated fuel cell and battery solutions, optimized for performance, cost and installation for the medium- and heavy-duty mobility markets of bus, truck, rail, marine, and off-road.

This strategic partnership is the beginning of a long-term collaboration involving the co-design, co-development, production, marketing, and sales of integrated fuel cell-battery solutions. . . .

Hydrogen electric powertrains are made up of a number of key components, including the fuel cell module, battery system, and Energy Management System (EMS). The fuel cell module, which is powered by hydrogen stored in tanks on the vehicle, produces electricity which is supplied to the electric powertrain. Batteries, charged by the electricity from the fuel cell, generate additional energy during sudden variations in load (acceleration or climbing a steep slope, for example).

The fuel cell and battery systems are thus complementary as the vehicle can move by means of the fuel cell, battery, or both, as needed by the vehicle duty cycle. To ensure optimization and high efficiency between these components a reliable and smart EMS is critical. . . .

Ballard, a global leader with more than 100 million kilometers traveled by more than 3,500 fuel cell electric buses and trucks, and Forsee Power, a global leader in batteries for light and heavy-duty electric vehicles, have each been supplying the same verticals, and some of the same customers, with fuel cell modules and battery systems since 2016. Optimization of the fuel cell-battery powertrain, resulting in improved reliability, durability, efficiency, and cost, is a logical next step for value creation.
 
Both GCC:
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14744&p=603479&hilit=%2413.1%2FMWh#p603178

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/10/20211021-yuchai.html


China Yuchai International, a leading manufacturer and distributor of engines for on- and off-road applications in China through its main operating subsidiary, Guangxi Yuchai Machinery Company Limited (GYMCL), announced that its subsidiary Yuchai Xin-Lan New Energy Power Technology Co., Ltd. (Yuchai Xin-Lan) has entered into a cooperation agreement to further develop hydrogen energy applications with fuel cell powertrain systems in the Beijing, Tianjin and Hebei markets.

Pursuant to the agreement, Beijing Xing Shun Da Bus Co., Ltd. (Beijing Xing Shun Da) and Yuchai Xin-Lan will form a joint venture in the Daxing District of Beijing to research and develop and manufacture fuel cell powertrain systems for on- and off-road applications. . . .

China Yuchai International, a leading manufacturer and distributor of engines for on- and off-road applications in China through its main operating subsidiary, Guangxi Yuchai Machinery Company Limited (GYMCL), announced that its subsidiary Yuchai Xin-Lan New Energy Power Technology Co., Ltd. (Yuchai Xin-Lan) has entered into a cooperation agreement to further develop hydrogen energy applications with fuel cell powertrain systems in the Beijing, Tianjin and Hebei markets.

Pursuant to the agreement, Beijing Xing Shun Da Bus Co., Ltd. (Beijing Xing Shun Da) and Yuchai Xin-Lan will form a joint venture in the Daxing District of Beijing to research and develop and manufacture fuel cell powertrain systems for on- and off-road applications. . . .

China Yuchai, through GYMCL, engages in the manufacture, assembly, and sale of a wide variety of light-, medium- and heavy-duty engines for trucks, buses, passenger vehicles, construction equipment, marine and agriculture applications in China.

GYMCL also produces diesel power generators. The engines produced by GYMCL range from diesel to natural gas and hybrid engines. Through its regional sales offices and authorized customer service centers, GYMCL distributes its engines directly to auto OEMs and retailers and provides maintenance and retrofitting services throughout China.

In 2020, GYMCL sold 430,320 engines and is recognized as a leading manufacturer and distributor of engines in China.




Snam, Toyota and CaetanoBus collaborate to accelerate the development of hydrogen mobility

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/10/20211021-snam.html


Snam, Toyota and CaetanoBus have signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU), with the aim of starting a wide-ranging collaboration to promote and accelerate the introduction of hydrogen-based mobility. . . .

The agreement may lead to the definition of specific end-to-end hydrogen mobility projects to be implemented in Italy and in other European countries, to support and benefit public administrations, local communities, businesses and private entities.

The initiatives may include the entire value chain: from hydrogen, from infrastructures for distribution and refueling to the introduction of fleets of buses, logistics vehicles and cars, due also to the availability of Toyota Group’s KINTO mobility services.

The collaboration also provides for jointly carrying out analysis, scouting and testing of innovative technological solutions, as well as the development of agreements in areas not strictly related to mobility, such as the use of hydrogen as a stationary application and for cogeneration applications.

The agreement will eventually be the subject of subsequent binding agreements that the parties will define in compliance with the applicable legislation and regulatory profiles.
 
All GCC:
INEOS subsidiary INOVYN to ramp up hydrogen supply to fuel trucks, buses and power generator sectors

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/10/20211022-inovyn.html


INOVYN, a subsidiary of INEOS, plans to upgrade existing production at its Runcorn Site so that it can supply compressed fuel-cell quality hydrogen to mobility and power generation sectors. This is part of more than €2 billion investment in green hydrogen announced by INEOS earlier.

INOVYN, which has been producing and using low-carbon hydrogen at its Runcorn Site for more than 100 years, is set to ramp up the supply of hydrogen to fuel the UK’s transport network.

Specifically, the investment will deliver dedicated on-site facilities for the purification and compression of existing low-carbon, fuel-cell quality hydrogen for subsequent loading and transportation and distribution to fueling stations across the UK.

Hydrogen production at Runcorn Site has the potential to provide low-carbon fuel to power more than 1,000 buses or 2,000 trucks, where battery electric drive systems are not appropriate due to range, payload and critical refueling times.

INOVYN is already Europe’s largest operator of electrolysis technology, which is used to make clean hydrogen. The investment at the site will kick-start the emerging hydrogen market and further support the North West’s regional commitment to carbon neutrality. . . .

The project builds on INOVYN’s hydrogen portfolio within the UK, including its involvement with consortiums such as HyNet North West, a clean hydrogen development project underpinned by INOVYN’s storage technology infrastructure to unlock low-carbon energy for the North West of England and North Wales.

INOVYN and its parent company INEOS are involved in multiple projects across Europe to develop green hydrogen and to replace existing carbon-based sources of energy, feedstocks and fuel. The group will work closely with national and European governments to facilitate hydrogen’s significant role in the new Green Economy. . . .

The Runcorn Site produces 7,000 tonnes of hydrogen each year; INEOS as a whole produces around 400,000 tonnes a year of hydrogen, which would replace the equivalent of around 2 billion liters of diesel. If applied to cars, 400,000 tonnes of hydrogen would fuel around 1 million - 2 million cars every year.




UBC thermal methane cracking technology deployed to Alberta in $7M test

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/10/20211025-tmc.html


New hydrogen production technology developed at the University of British Columbia (UBC) will be tested in a $7-million project between UBC, the government of Alberta and Alberta utility company ATCO.

The technology developed by the UBC researchers—thermal methane cracking (TMC)—can produce up to 200 kilograms of hydrogen a day using natural gas, without using water, while reducing or eliminating greenhouse gas emissions. The team will test their system at a facility in Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta, run by ATCO, Alberta’s largest natural gas distributor.

Currently, hydrogen can cost up to $15 per kilogram. The project aims to eventually drop this to less than $2 per kilogram—in line with goals set by the US Department of Energy to support hydrogen adoption.

Dr. Omar Herrera, project co-lead and senior program manager at MéridaLabs, notes that most hydrogen is still currently produced using steam methane reforming (SMR).

SMR still emits a significant amount of carbon dioxide and uses large quantities of water and energy. Water electrolysis is another method, but it is costly and can emit even more greenhouse gases than SMR if the electricity used is from non-renewable sources. In contrast, our thermal methane cracking method can produce zero emissions—its only byproduct is carbon black.

—Dr. Herrera. . . .




Royal Caribbean Group to use trio of power sources on next class of ships: fuel cell, battery, dual fuel engines

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/10/20211025-rcl.html


Royal Caribbean Group’s new class of ships known as ‘Project Evolution’, set to debut in summer 2023, will operate using a trio of power sources including a fuel cell system, battery technology and dual fuel engines using liquefied natural gas (LNG) as the main fuel. This tribrid solution with the hydrogen fuel cell system allows the ship to be free of local emissions while at port.

The new technology not only helps in port, but also allows Project Evolution to achieve a 40% overall reduction in its greenhouse gas emissions per double occupancy when compared to the brand’s previous class of ships. The ship class is also projected to achieve an Energy Efficiency Design Index (EEDI) rating approximately 25% better than applicable International Maritime Organization (IMO) requirements.

Project Evolution’s full suite of initiatives, developed in partnership with Meyer Werft Shipyard, will bring energy efficiency to a new level and will include both first-of-its-kind initiatives and successful features previously introduced such as:

Fuel Cell System – this hydrogen-based technology will supplement the main power supply and carry the ship’s total hotel load—up to four megawatts—the first large-scale fuel-cell installation at sea in the cruise industry.

LNG (Liquid Natural Gas) – a cleaner burning fuel, LNG-fueled propulsion systems emit less CO2 and 97% fewer particulates than normal fuel oil used on ships.

Battery – a bank of batteries supports optimizing the overall ship power system, saving fuel. . . .
 
All GCC:
CRI ETL project in China will recycle 150,000 tons of CO2/year to make 100,000 tons of methanol

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/10/20211026-cri.html


Chinese petrochemicals corporation Jiangsu Sailboat Petrochemicals Co. ltd has signed an agreement with Icelandic technology company Carbon Recycling International (CRI) to design a chemical plant based on CRI’s Emissions to Liquids (ETL) technology. (Earlier post.)

The plant will recycle approximately 150,000 metric tons of CO2 and 20,000 metric tons of H2 per year from other onsite processes to produce 100,000 tons of methanol annually. The Jiangsu Sailboat Green Methanol plant will be built in Lianyungang, Jiangsu province on the east coast of China, integrated into their 15 km2 Shenghong petrochemical industrial park.

Methanol is the main raw material used in Jiangsu Sailboat’s existing 2.4 million metric tons per year production of a wide product range of polymers and plastics. These include products used for making solar panels and plexiglass.

The CRI ETL plant’s direct use of 150,000 metric tons of CO2 annually, will equal the effect of taking 53,000 fossil fuel cars off the roads. Indirect emission savings from avoiding the use of fossil raw materials is even larger, estimated to be as high as 550,000 tons per year. This is equivalent to 37,000 hectares of forest planting area, or 370 square kilometers of land.

The plant will be owned and operated by Jiangsu Sailboat and is expected to begin its operation in 2023. The cost of the project is estimated around US$35 million (RMB 225 million).

This project will be the second in China based on CRI’s ETL technology. The first CRI project, the Shunli plant in Anyang, Henan province, is currently in the final stages of construction and expected to be in operation early next year. . . .




BMW Group plans to source steel produced with green power and hydrogen from H2GS in Sweden

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/10/20211026-bmwhsgs.html


From 2025 on, the company plans to source steel produced with up to 95% less CO2 emissions and without requiring fossil resources such as coal. The BMW Group has now reached an agreement to this effect with the Swedish startup H2 Green Steel (H2GS), which uses hydrogen and only green power from renewable energies for steel production. (Mercedes-Benz took a stake in H2GS in May 2021. Earlier post.)

In addition to the delivery of steel produced using green power, the BMW Group and H2 Green Steel have also agreed to create a closed-loop material cycle. H2 Green Steel will take back sheet metal remnants, such as those produced at press plants when doors are punched out, and will process them in such a way that they can be shipped back to the plants as new steel rolls, also known as steel coils.

In this way, raw materials can be used multiple times in a circular economy and natural resources protected. Since it requires less energy to produce, secondary steel lowers CO2 emissions by an average of 50-80%, compared to primary material.

The BMW Group is already using between 20% and 100% secondary steel in its vehicles and will continue to increase this percentage in the future. . . .

H2 Green Steel is building its steel production site in the province of Norrbotten in northern Sweden, close to the Arctic Circle. The region . . . provides access to high-quality iron ore, plentiful energy from renewable sources such as hydroelectric and wind power, a major seaport and generations of steel production know-how.

Unlike conventional processes that rely on coke for making steel, the company employs hydrogen produced using green power to remove the oxygen from the iron oxide. This direct reduction of iron ore produces almost no CO2 at all, only water, thereby avoiding 95% of the CO2 emissions normally produced. The specially built hydrogen power plant, which uses water and green power from across the region, will be directly integrated into the steel production plant. The company also uses local green power for the remainder of the manufacturing process. . . .




Mitsubishi and ZeroAvia to collaborate on design & development of hydrogen-electric technology for regional jets

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/10/20211026-zeroavia.html


MHI RJ Aviation Group (MHIRJ), a wholly owned subsidiary of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and the world’s largest CRJ Series Aircraft Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul company, and ZeroAvia, an innovator in hydrogen-electric propulsion for aviation (earlier post), signed an agreement to cooperate in developing hydrogen-electric propulsion for regional jet applications. . . .

According to the MOU, MHIRJ will be supporting ZeroAvia by providing engineering services in support of the certification of the engines to PART 33 for aircraft, as well as assisting ZeroAvia by providing advisory services evaluating the feasibility of a green retrofit program for regional aircraft.

This marks a crucial step in ZeroAvia’s progress and entry into a wider market. The company has completed more than 35 test flights of a Piper M-class six-seat aircraft using its hydrogen fuel cell powertrain. Currently, it is working to convert a larger 19-seat Dornier 228 aircraft with its zero-emission powertrain with a first test flight expected in the coming months.

ZeroAvia plans certification and market entry for its 19-seat powertrain by 2024, with an eye towards larger aircraft (50-80 seats) by 2026, and regional jets around 2028. . . .

Based in the UK and USA, ZeroAvia has already secured experimental certificates for two prototype aircraft from the CAA and FAA, passed significant flight test milestones, and is on track for commercial operations in 2024. The company’s expanding UK operations are supported by grants from UK’s Aerospace Technology Institute and Innovate UK, and ZeroAvia is part of the UK Prime Minister’s Jet Zero Council.
 
If California wanted to reduce fossil fuel use, they would discourage hydrogen use for at least the next couple of decades.

Hydrogen from electrolysis (aka "green hydrogen") is about 0.5% of total worldwide production.

Almost all hydrogen currently comes from fossil fuels.

Not changing, at least for a couple of decades.

https://www.h2bulletin.com/global-planned-green-hydrogen-capacity-reaches-94-gw-by-2030/
 
WetEV said:
If California wanted to reduce fossil fuel use, they would discourage hydrogen use for at least the next couple of decades.

Almost all hydrogen currently comes from fossil fuels.
As does most electricity. The same argument can be (and often is) used against promoting BEVs.

At this point neither BEVs nor HFCEVs are ready to replace ICEVs, although BEVs may be somewhat closer. I'd like to see both technologies progress and we'll see which gets there first.
 
oxothuk said:
WetEV said:
If California wanted to reduce fossil fuel use, they would discourage hydrogen use for at least the next couple of decades.

Almost all hydrogen currently comes from fossil fuels.
As does most electricity. The same argument can be (and often is) used against promoting BEVs.

At this point neither BEVs nor HFCEVs are ready to replace ICEVs, although BEVs may be somewhat closer. I'd like to see both technologies progress and we'll see which gets there first.

That is a false equivalence. It used to be that ~67% of CA electricity came from fossil fuels (over a decade ago), and even then, that's no were near the 99% for hydrogen (recent results show only 4% coming from electrolysis, which is mostly supplied by fossil fuels as well).

As of 2020, less than 40% of california's electricity comes from some form of fossil fuels: https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2020-total-system-electric-generation

Pre-pandemic, it was 37% coming from fossil fuels.

So no, BEV's can and are replacing ICEV's, and with the grid getting cleaner, BEV's are the solution to cleaning up our emissions.

Edit. The idea that BEV's and HFCEV's are "equivalent", and that neither are ready for general use is a lie.
 
oxothuk wrote:
WetEV wrote:

If California wanted to reduce fossil fuel use, they would discourage hydrogen use for at least the next couple of decades.

Almost all hydrogen currently comes from fossil fuels.

As does most electricity. The same argument can be (and often is) used against promoting BEVs.

At this point neither BEVs nor HFCEVs are ready to replace ICEVs, although BEVs may be somewhat closer. I'd like to see both technologies progress and we'll see which gets there first.


^^^ Yup: https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-repo...ty-data/2020-total-system-electric-generation
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Edit. The idea that BEV's and HFCEV's are "equivalent", and that neither are ready for general use is a lie.
Let me know when you buy a BEV (or HFCEV) for the same price as an ICEV of the same size/trim/functionality.

Not saying it will never happen, but we’re nowhere close at the moment.
 
oxothuk said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Edit. The idea that BEV's and HFCEV's are "equivalent", and that neither are ready for general use is a lie.
Let me know when you buy a BEV (or HFCEV) for the same price as an ICEV of the same size/trim/functionality.

Not saying it will never happen, but we’re nowhere close at the moment.

My nissan leaf cost $20k after taxes, incentives, and fees.

My model 3 costs the same as a BMW 3-series to purchase, yet is faster. In the long run, it will actually cost less to own (purchase price + operating costs) than a Camry.

People who still choose to buy new ICEV's now, don't know how to properly calculate long term ownership costs, or they only want to keep the car for 3 year or less. In which case, that's a different emissions calculation that needs to factor in the resale value (and continued downstream use) of the car (which still comes out ahead for a Tesla).

Edit: If you're comparing a Niro EV to a non-BEV Niro, then the ROI takes a little longer, but still comes out ahead for the BEV after 100k miles.
 
OTOH: https://www.tu-auto.com/evs-cost-more-to-own-than-ice-aaa-study-says/


Such comparisons are highly dependent on fuel, electricity, maintenance and insurance costs, among others. A Model 3 may accelerate faster than a 3 series, but the latter can take you anywhere you need to go (on a paved road) by any route you choose with essentially no planning required, will do so any time of the year, will not determine where you stop to eat or sleep, and will still be able to do the same things years after the Model 3 or at least its battery pack needs replacement. Oh, a 3-series starts at a base MSRP of $41,450, although you can jack it up to $69.9k base for an M3.
 
GRA said:
OTOH: https://www.tu-auto.com/evs-cost-more-to-own-than-ice-aaa-study-says/


Such comparisons are highly dependent on fuel, electricity, maintenance and insurance costs, among others. A Model 3 may accelerate faster than a 3 series, but the latter can take you anywhere you need to go (on a paved road) by any route you choose with essentially no planning required, will do so any time of the year, will not determine where you stop to eat or sleep, and will still be able to do the same things years after the Model 3 or at least its battery pack needs replacement. Oh, a 3-series starts at a base MSRP of $41,450, although you can jack it up to $69.9k base for an M3.

The AAA study cited higher depreciation as the biggest cost difference, because it offsets the lower fuel and maintenance costs:
"Like all cars, the biggest cost of owning an EV is the drop in its value as it gains age and mileage. Electric vehicles currently see a greater decline because they have higher purchase prices than non-EVs, and because there is less demand for used EVs, perhaps because of concerns about long-term reliability. This gap may close as both types of cars enter “middle age” (6 years and older), when more than half their initial value is already lost."

Except that it isn't true. The Nissan Leaf, which is notorious for the worst battery life, has average depreciation (47% after 3 years). Tesla's have far better depreciation (~80% retained value after 3 years for the model 3). And notice that the depreciation gaps close after 6 years.

Also, the source vehicles were the Chevy Bolt, VW golf, and Nissan Leaf. Of those, only the Leaf has had battery replacements due to capacity issues. None of the others have. And it's well known amongst BEV owners that the larger the battery pack size (along with other factors like active thermal management), the higher the pack longevity (due to reduced cycling). So the "questionable long term reliability" is a red herring.
 
oxothuk said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Edit. The idea that BEV's and HFCEV's are "equivalent", and that neither are ready for general use is a lie.
Let me know when you buy a BEV (or HFCEV) for the same price as an ICEV of the same size/trim/functionality.

Not saying it will never happen, but we’re nowhere close at the moment.

Good point. The closest ICE equivalent to my Bolt is probably a VW GTI.
They are similar size and performance, although the Bolt is much larger inside.
You can get a new Bolt for $25k but a GTI starts at $30k. So not the same price (and that's just purchase price; cost of ownership gets better for the Bolt every year).
The Bolt is far more functional. It takes me everywhere I want to go, and conveniently fuels in my driveway overnight. When I do have to charge on the road, I don't have to stand next to the car, breathing carcinogenic fumes. Instead, I walk away, take a bio break, and grab a coffee/snack. Much more pleasant.

So yeah, comparing the Bolt to the GTI, they are not the same size/trim/functionality. The Bolt is better in every category.
 
More data points:
Volvo XC40, starting MSRP $34,100
Volvo XC40 Recharge, starting MSRP $55,300

Ford F-150, starting MSRP $29,290
Ford F-150 Lightning, starting MSRP $39,974
 
LeftieBiker said:
Hopefully you left those comments there.

It's a two year old study, not written by the blog author. A reply should point to this, perhaps:

https://insideevs.com/news/394513/aaa-survey-depreciation-ev-concern/


Higher cost for BEV might well have been true, looking backwards, especially if the right (wrong) time period is chosen. And if the focus is on the bottom of the market, ie excluding Tesla in the past.

Depreciation varies a lot. My LEAF has not depreciated recently at all, rather has appreciated. As long as new cars are in short supply, I would expect that depreciation in general will be much lower than historical. Consider this table:

aaa-s-full-ev-cost-of-ownership-data-shows-depreciation-concern.jpg


Now with new cars selling for about the same price as two year old used cars, and five year old cars being only slightly cheaper, how would the results change?
 
oxothuk said:
Ford F-150, starting MSRP $29,290
Ford F-150 Lightning, starting MSRP $39,974

Two wheel drive vs 4 wheel drive. That's $4,645 of the difference.

No "power center", likely lots of other differences.

Apple, meet Orange.
 
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