DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15088
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Promoting Electric Vehicles Act of 2010

Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:35 am

whats the latest on boosting the credit?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Promoting Electric Vehicles Act of 2010

Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:42 am

Nothing until elections. We'll have to see if they do something in the lame duck session after that.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15088
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Promoting Electric Vehicles Act of 2010

Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:45 am

as i figured, have to hope democrats retain control
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
walterbays
Posts: 1209
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Promoting Electric Vehicles Act of 2010

Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:18 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:as i figured, have to hope democrats retain control
It looks bad, both for the EV credit and for the EVSE credit despite the fact that Democrats, Republicans, environmentalists, and business all support it.

http://www.bnet.com/blog/electric-cars/ ... likes/2358
http://www.bnet.com/blog/electric-cars/ ... -container

I have no problem with Republicans being pro oil industry. It's no different than Democrats being pro wind and solar industries, and fair game to be settled at the ballot box. But I can't understand why so many self proclaimed patriots seem so keen for America to be in thrall to foreign countries, many of which hate us fervently.
7/00 Dodge Intrepid - 18 MPG - gas $1.72
10/04 Toyota Prius - 35 MPG - $2.40
8/30/10 reserved - $3.09
2/22/11 ordered red SL ETEC - $3.56
3/15/11 delivery est. May - $3.95
4/29/11 delivery est. June - $4.20
2.9 kW PV: >100% of power needs, pre-Leaf

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Promoting Electric Vehicles Act of 2010

Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:29 am

Note that above article by Jim is talking about the 50% off EVSE. The 7.5K credit, AFAIK, doesn't need reauthorization.

But, the 7.5K can only be increased to 10K with a new bill, of course.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

User avatar
walterbays
Posts: 1209
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Promoting Electric Vehicles Act of 2010

Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:14 am

evnow wrote:Note that above article by Jim is talking about the 50% off EVSE. The 7.5K credit, AFAIK, doesn't need reauthorization.

But, the 7.5K can only be increased to 10K with a new bill, of course.
Not that I'd mind getting another $2.5K, but I think that money would be better spent on charging infrastructure, battery R&D, wind turbine R&D, smart grid, V2G, etc. The current tax credit is enough to make Leaf "mainstream" and I don't think a little bit more would sway a lot more people to try EV early on. I believe that in the 2011 and 2012 model years, Leaf will be constrained by Nissan's production capacity, not by demand.

The crucial test for EV viability will be the success of those first 40,000 US customers of 2011/12 Leafs, and that gets back to the public infrastructure. People need to see their neighbors commuting in their Leafs, without anxiety. Then when Nissan can build 200,000 Leafs in the 2013 model year they can find buyers, as can Ford Fusion EV, GM Volt, and others. With that kind of volume, batteries may be driven down the cost curve towards Ghosn's target of 1M EV's per year, to be cost competitive with ICE without government subsidy. And with that kind of volume we could see lithium air or carbon nanotube batteries commercialized by2019 when we need to replace batteries in our Leafs, and get a 2X to 10X improvement on range and/or cost.

But if instead the public sees a lot of Leafs towed or trucked back to dealers for recharging, and late model Leafs sitting on used car lots at deep discount, then none of that is going to happen.
7/00 Dodge Intrepid - 18 MPG - gas $1.72
10/04 Toyota Prius - 35 MPG - $2.40
8/30/10 reserved - $3.09
2/22/11 ordered red SL ETEC - $3.56
3/15/11 delivery est. May - $3.95
4/29/11 delivery est. June - $4.20
2.9 kW PV: >100% of power needs, pre-Leaf

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Promoting Electric Vehicles Act of 2010

Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:25 am

walterbays wrote:Not that I'd mind getting another $2.5K, but I think that money would be better spent on charging infrastructure, battery R&D, wind turbine R&D, smart grid, V2G, etc. The current tax credit is enough to make Leaf "mainstream" and I don't think a little bit more would sway a lot more people to try EV early on.
Yes, I think the biggest thing the government can do is to install a lot of L3 infrastructure. As I've noted earlier - an L3 charger can be installed every 15 miles (225 sq miles) in entire US with less than $1B.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15088
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Promoting Electric Vehicles Act of 2010

Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:32 pm

walterbays wrote:
evnow wrote:Note that above article by Jim is talking about the 50% off EVSE. The 7.5K credit, AFAIK, doesn't need reauthorization.

But, the 7.5K can only be increased to 10K with a new bill, of course.
Not that I'd mind getting another $2.5K, but I think that money would be better spent on charging infrastructure, battery R&D, wind turbine R&D, smart grid, V2G, etc. The current tax credit is enough to make Leaf "mainstream" and I don't think a little bit more would sway a lot more people to try EV early on. I believe that in the 2011 and 2012 model years, Leaf will be constrained by Nissan's production capacity, not by demand.

The crucial test for EV viability will be the success of those first 40,000 US customers of 2011/12 Leafs, and that gets back to the public infrastructure. People need to see their neighbors commuting in their Leafs, without anxiety. Then when Nissan can build 200,000 Leafs in the 2013 model year they can find buyers, as can Ford Fusion EV, GM Volt, and others. With that kind of volume, batteries may be driven down the cost curve towards Ghosn's target of 1M EV's per year, to be cost competitive with ICE without government subsidy. And with that kind of volume we could see lithium air or carbon nanotube batteries commercialized by2019 when we need to replace batteries in our Leafs, and get a 2X to 10X improvement on range and/or cost.

But if instead the public sees a lot of Leafs towed or trucked back to dealers for recharging, and late model Leafs sitting on used car lots at deep discount, then none of that is going to happen.

agree with you 100% in that any money can always find a better use and your alternatives are wonderful options. but all this implies that we have hit or approached some sort of limit in support of EV technology. that i find difficult to accept

even if a tenfold increase in spending on the EV highway project was to be approved, it still pales in comparison to the massive support provided to the oil industry.

like i said, i agree with you 100% on alternative ways to promote EV growth, but not giving us a bigger discount is not one i can agree with. we simply need to allocate more to one energy solution, less to another
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
walterbays
Posts: 1209
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Promoting Electric Vehicles Act of 2010

Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:14 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:like i said, i agree with you 100% on alternative ways to promote EV growth, but not giving us a bigger discount is not one i can agree with. we simply need to allocate more to one energy solution, less to another
Okay, I'll agree 100% with you as well. But I don't think there's the political will in Washington to spend much on renewable energy. After the elections we could well see major scaling back of existing programs.

Now here's a scenario I am NOT hoping for, but which I fear is all too likely. Iran ignores sanctions and continues to develop nuclear missles. Just before they become operational, Israel knocks out all their enrichment and missle facilities, igniting a new Mideast war. The U.S. reluctantly supports Israel, and Arab regimes who detest Tehran nevertheless take Iran's side. The Strait of Hormuz is blocked, and the constriction of world oil supplies makes the 1973 oil embargo look like a picnic. Then there would suddenly be great political will to develop renewable energy and to promote an EV vehicle industry, with bitter recriminations blaming the administration for failing to prepare for the event - by the same congressmen who voted to end all renewable energy and EV programs a few months earlier.
7/00 Dodge Intrepid - 18 MPG - gas $1.72
10/04 Toyota Prius - 35 MPG - $2.40
8/30/10 reserved - $3.09
2/22/11 ordered red SL ETEC - $3.56
3/15/11 delivery est. May - $3.95
4/29/11 delivery est. June - $4.20
2.9 kW PV: >100% of power needs, pre-Leaf

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15088
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Promoting Electric Vehicles Act of 2010

Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:54 pm

that would be a bummer. now my dad is a die hard republican aggravated by the fact that he lives in Texas which makes him a die hard Bush fan. all he can talk about is how bad the democrats are doing, etc.

his latest email jaunt has him blaming the Democrats when they took over control of Congress on jan 3, 2007. he states that up until then, we had 52 straight months of expansion, jobs added, etc.

well, my contention is that Reagen is to blame. he ridiculed Jimmy Carters environmental and energy conversation plans even going so far as to tear the solar panels off the roof of the White House that Carter had installed.

so, in a nutshell; we are playing catch up. we have 30 years to make up and we aint gonna do it effectively if we sit on our ass and wait for some shining light to come down from the Heavens singing the praises of EV technology. the jump start that happened in California in the 90's created a groundswell of die hard support that flourishes to this day and we are not talking millions of people or even thousands. its only a few hundred but they are making an impact.

Nissan with their launch going nationwide FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER in the affordable EV market will cause a sensation that will go on for years, as long as they can execute

right now, most of the people that could easily drive an EV as one of their cars (primarily 2+ car households) will not even consider one because of that one time they will need more range. not until they see their neighbor managing the range issues just fine will they then realize that they really dont drive all that much after all.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Return to “Business / Economy and Politics”