indyflick
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:09 am

lne937s wrote:For LED lighting, I recommend CREE. There is a lot of exageration in the LED lighting business, and some products that look good in manufacturer's claims do not perform well in real life or independant testing. CREE products tend to outperform rated specs in independant testing.
http://www.creeledlighting.com/index.aspx

You can acutally buy one of their downlights through home depot:
http://www.homedepot.com/Lighting-Fans- ... ogId=10053
Thanks for the pointer. I think I'll buy just one initially, and try it in a torchiere lamp we keep on all night. Looks like it would save roughly 4 kWh per month over the CFL I'm using now. Let's see 4 kWh, that's 16 LEAF miles :D

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abasile
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:39 am

Those Cree bulbs are nice, but they're expensive! ($50/bulb) I really do like the light output of the $22 par30 no-name bulbs from http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003LP ... ss_product . Maybe what I need to do is buy a power meter so that I can confirm they only use 6W as advertised.

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garygid
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:16 pm

When on sale at the grocery store (4 for $5 or less), or at the 99.99¢ Store, the CFB's are a LOT less expensive ... though maybe the quality varies.
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lne937s
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:42 pm

abasile wrote:Those Cree bulbs are nice, but they're expensive! ($50/bulb) I really do like the light output of the $22 par30 no-name bulbs from http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003LP ... ss_product . Maybe what I need to do is buy a power meter so that I can confirm they only use 6W as advertised.
You'll need to do more than that. You will need to measure lumens output, CRI, color temperature.... I wouldn't choose no-name bulbs unless independently tested. Chances are they have half the output of what they claim, poor color rendering and much faster lumen depreciation.

The CREE downlight retrofits (not really bulbs) have been thouroughly tested and are proven performers. Take a look through CALiPER tests. Unfortunately, they do not list brands and models in the tests, but sometimes you can figure it out. It is amazing how much variance from advertised specs some of these products have-- some LED bulbs are actually less efficient than incandescents.
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/ssl/reports.html

CREE is more expensive than some cheap, no-name SSL, but they are much better in terms of product quality, light quality and efficiency. You also have to keep in mind where and how the light is used-- downlights and directional lighting tend to do better with SSL. I did some research on this for ISO 14001 certification at my office a couple of years ago and CREE had the best cost/performance ratio... and the current retrofits are half the price of what I was looking at. There are some other products out there that do fairly well from fairly well-known manufacturers (Phillips, Sylvania, etc.), but they are comparable with CREE in terms of price. I would stick with CREE and/or EnergyStar-rated products.

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lne937s
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:53 pm

garygid wrote:When on sale at the grocery store (4 for $5 or less), or at the 99.99¢ Store, the CFB's are a LOT less expensive ... though maybe the quality varies.
Quality LED's offer a number of benefits over CFL:

Less energy consumption
Less heat (less HVAC)
In recessed fixtures, about 10 times the lifespan
Reduced maintenance costs (if you are a business)
Dimmability to further reduce energy consumption when not needed (not available in cheap CFL and poor quality in more expensive CFL)
Does not lose life with constant switching on and off (for occupancy sensors- further reducing energy consumption)
Instant on at full output
No toxic, bioaccumulative Mercury- which gassifies within the fragile glass of CLF's- and can labor problems due to the need to move people out of a room, ventilate and follow cleanup procedures if a bulb breaks

Long term, LED bulbs come out ahead financially- especially in workplaces

smkettner
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:58 pm

Dimmability sounds interesting. I so far have not been able to get past the price vs CFLs of which I have.
Do you have some that you dim? Is the effect as linear as incandesent right down to very dim?

My fixtures are made for R40 size lamps. Is the Home Depot bulb (linked above) made for this fixture or the more common R30?
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abasile
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:03 pm

lne937s wrote:
abasile wrote:Those Cree bulbs are nice, but they're expensive! ($50/bulb) I really do like the light output of the $22 par30 no-name bulbs from http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003LP ... ss_product . Maybe what I need to do is buy a power meter so that I can confirm they only use 6W as advertised.
You'll need to do more than that. You will need to measure lumens output, CRI, color temperature.... I wouldn't choose no-name bulbs unless independently tested. Chances are they have half the output of what they claim, poor color rendering and much faster lumen depreciation.
I don't really need to do all of that. We already have them in our kitchen, and are subjectively very happy with the light output. :-) However, I do admit that only time will tell how long they last and whether there is noticeable lumen depreciation. At the right price, though, I'm willing to be a guinea pig. That said, I think I will follow your recommendation and try out one or two CREE lights. I would like to see how they compare.

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lne937s
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:10 pm

smkettner wrote:Dimmability sounds interesting. I so far have not been able to get past the price vs CFLs of which I have.
Do you have some that you dim? Is the effect as linear as incandesent right down to very dim?

My fixtures are made for R40 size lamps. Is the Home Depot bulb (linked above) made for this fixture or the more common R30?
It really isn't a bulb- it is designed to mount into 6" recessed lighting cans. Basically, it screws into the edison in the can, you press it up and it spring mounts in the can with the trim ring flush with the ceiling... However, I guess you could use it as a bulb. Home Depot also offers other LED lights, but they are not made by CREE and I can't vouch for their effectiveness.

I rent, don't have recessed lights, and am not allowed to make those kinds of modifications, so I can't install them at home... but the dimming demos I've seen and the reviews are pretty positive.

LEAFfan
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:21 pm

lne937s wrote:
garygid wrote:When on sale at the grocery store (4 for $5 or less), or at the 99.99¢ Store, the CFB's are a LOT less expensive ... though maybe the quality varies.
Quality LED's offer a number of benefits over CFL:

Less energy consumption
Less heat (less HVAC)
In recessed fixtures, about 10 times the lifespan
Reduced maintenance costs (if you are a business)
Dimmability to further reduce energy consumption when not needed (not available in cheap CFL and poor quality in more expensive CFL)
Does not lose life with constant switching on and off (for occupancy sensors- further reducing energy consumption)
Instant on at full output
No toxic, bioaccumulative Mercury- which gassifies within the fragile glass of CLF's- and can labor problems due to the need to move people out of a room, ventilate and follow cleanup procedures if a bulb breaks

Long term, LED bulbs come out ahead financially- especially in workplaces
I agree except for a few: CFLs (depending on the size) put off a lot less heat than incandescents and not that much more than LEDs. My CFLs have a 5 yr. warranty, so that means your LEDs have a 50 yr. lifespan? I doubt that. My CFLs put out the equivalent of a 60W incandescent at only 9 waats. That's really close to an LED. When they expire, I will replace them with LEDs. :) Btw, one of the first things I did after buying this home (about 4 yrs. ago) was to replace 75 (had no idea there were this many) incandescents with CFLs. We also had a timer put on the hot water heater (electric) and only need it on about two hours a day instead of 24 like most do. Pre-cooling cuts the energy use by a ton! We don't use the A/C, washer, hot water heater, or cook during the on-peak hours of 3-6 PM weekdays. All of this has given us over $100/mo. less on our bill compared to all the other houses on our block with the same sq. footage. When we add the pvs in Dec., it will be close to $200/mo. cheaper than our neighbors. :)

indyflick
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:26 pm

leaffan wrote:My CFLs put out the equivalent of a 60W incandescent at only 9 waats. That's really close to an LED.
Do you happen to remember which brand of CFL you have? My 60W equivalent CFLs are 13W and 100W equivalent are 23W.
Last edited by indyflick on Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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