LEAFfan
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:29 pm

indyflick wrote:
leaffan wrote:My CFLs put out the equivalent of a 60W incandescent at only 9 waats. That's really close to an LED.
Do you happen to remember which brand of CFL you have? My 60W equivalent CFLs are 23W.
Ya, hold on...brb...Lights of America (CA) www.lightsofamerica.com, but I didn't buy them online four years ago...can't remember where I found them...maybe WalMart.

LEAFfan
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:33 pm

indyflick wrote:
leaffan wrote:My CFLs put out the equivalent of a 60W incandescent at only 9 waats. That's really close to an LED.
Do you happen to remember which brand of CFL you have? My 60W equivalent CFLs are 23W.
Wow! I have some other 60-65's that are only 14W, but they could be a different brand. The 60/9 w look like an incandescent, but the 14's have those curls/swirls. I bought the curly ones first, then found the better ones later.

indyflick
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:40 pm

leaffan wrote:Wow! I have some other 60-65's that are only 14W, but they could be a different brand. The 60/9 w look like an incandescent, but the 14's have those curls/swirls. I bought the curly ones first, then found the better ones later.
I just looked again. It's my 100W equivalent that are 23W, my 60W equivalent are 13W. We got them at Costco for 20 cents a piece. There was an instant SDG&E rebate going on at the time. What a deal!

LEAFfan
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:45 pm

indyflick wrote:
leaffan wrote:Wow! I have some other 60-65's that are only 14W, but they could be a different brand. The 60/9 w look like an incandescent, but the 14's have those curls/swirls. I bought the curly ones first, then found the better ones later.
I just looked again. It's my 100W equivalent that are 23W, my 60W equivalent are 13W. We got them at Costco for 20 cents a piece. There was an instant SDG&E rebate going on at the time. What a deal!
Absolutely! .20 is almost free! I love Costco! But I already had mine by then. Dang! It's all in the timing. ;)

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:45 pm

My numbers run slightly worse than 3-1. CFLs i have run like 9 watts to 25 watt spots I also have a bunch of 14/55 (actual/perceived) spots and a few of the round ones. I found that the 14s with a difuser worked better even though i usually need a few more blubs to do the trick
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
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lne937s
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:30 am

leaffan wrote: I agree except for a few: CFLs (depending on the size) put off a lot less heat than incandescents and not that much more than LEDs. My CFLs have a 5 yr. warranty, so that means your LEDs have a 50 yr. lifespan? I doubt that. My CFLs put out the equivalent of a 60W incandescent at only 9 waats. That's really close to an LED. When they expire, I will replace them with LEDs. :) Btw, one of the first things I did after buying this home (about 4 yrs. ago) was to replace 75 (had no idea there were this many) incandescents with CFLs... :)
Here is where it gets confusing. I spent a few months on a lighting proposal as part of an energy efficiency committee at work. If you look at a CFL in manufacturers claims, they look pretty good... However, in real life commercial application it is another story. The CFL bulbs are rated constant on bare bulb at a steady cool temp, with some manufacturer rounding up. Put them in a recessed fixture (and not all are recommended for recessed fixtures) for an office environment, and it is a different story. About half of the light output is lost in fixture. Heat is trapped in fixture, leading to higher power consumption and much shorter lifespan. You want the holes in the ceilling sealed to keep from using HVAC to heat and cool the airspace above the ceiling, causing more thermal problems in the cans. People turn lights on and off. CFL's also tend to completely fail, meaning you have to move up your replacement schedule to account for first failures. In recessed fixtures in an office situation, CFL's need to be replaced regularly (although they are an improvement over incandescents).

However, the CREE retrofits are engineered and rated for the application. While the rated lifespan of a CFL doesn't look too bad on paper for ideal circumstances, the LED fixtures easily last ten times as long in-application. And since they tend to degrade, rather than completely burn out, you can stretch the replacement schedule even longer. The LED retrofit offers much better light output and lifespan in application. The trim ring seals off the ceiling, making it unnessary to replace the cans with sealed backs. Switching on an off does not degrade LED's. And CREE tends to rate their bulbs conservatively (unlike most manufacturers). DOE, Walmart, DOD and some other large organizations that actually have the time, buying power, and capablilties to fully evaluate the options have been going with CREE LED fixtures.

But, if you just look at the numbers used in marketing, it is hard to tell that. You can look at residential consumer warranty rating where they will make you fill out paperwork while being almost as expensive with shipping as a new bulb to have it replaced under warranty and be mislead to think it will last that long in application (like "lifetime warranty" brake pads at Midas). It is like comparing Aiwa boombox advertised wattage to NAD amplifier rated wattage-- in real life the NAD actually measures dramatically higher, but the boombox advertises itself much higher. It really isn't easy for a consumer to figure it out (it took me a while on the committee). You see numbers and think you are comparing apples to apples, but you aren't. And many no-name LED manufacturers also have misleading marketing. Some even use CREE diodes in their fixturers and you would think they would operate comparably, but the electronics and thermal management are not up to par with the CREE fixtures... That's why I recommend people who don't have aquisition departments and access to independant testing to look at Energy Star and some of the other DOE programs and think about the application.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:33 am

Some of my cfls went out early as well after only 3 years or so but they were high use areas. Previously we had those small 25 watt bulbs and was hard to tell how long they lasted cause their were 8 lights. But guessing they were good for a year or so. Some of the cfls i have are goiing on 10 years and 3 diffeent fixtures
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
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indyflick
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:39 pm

Anyone tied solar tubes for lighting yet?

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lne937s
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:49 pm

indyflick wrote:Anyone tied solar tubes for lighting yet?
No specific experience with those, but skylights can help a lot when the sun is shining...

However, there are even simpler ways to reduce lighting consumption (although you may not like the way it looks)... Paint everything white, use light colored flooring and light colored furnishings. Then use smaller output bulbs and/or dimmers... Much of the light in a room is reflected and light colors will allow you to use daylight longer and use smaller bulbs. White paint for when we repaint and smaller wattage replacement bulbs was actually one of the things that did get approved at our office-- and cost virtually nothing. With some removable, washable (as you will probably need to do so regularly) slip covers, careful use of lighting (not overlighting), and a few bits of color, virtually all white can actually look pretty cool:
http://www.shoreclub.com/#/home/

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Jimmydreams
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Re: "Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car

Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:56 pm

indyflick wrote:Anyone tied solar tubes for lighting yet?
I have a solartube in my hall bathroom. Before putting in the tube, the hallway was dark and forbidding unless the bathroom light was on. Now, the whole hallways is illuminated from that one solartube. They're pricey, but they do the trick!
JimmyD
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