electriclarry
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Better Place - Are you Ready to Switch? : FT

Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:57 pm

Please read this VERY interesting story in the Weekend FT(Financial Times) on 'Better Places' and what it plans to with the Fluence, which is the Leaf's Cousin.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/c0ef35cc-c06a ... ab49a.html

US edition of the FT Sept 18/19 2010 Life and Arts Page 21




Off topic: sorry but please read Lucy Kellaway on Monday's in the FT and download her Podcast. The best columnist in the English Speaking world!

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sjfotos
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Re: Are you Ready to Switch? Financial Times Satuurday Sept 18

Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:23 pm

electriclarry wrote:Please read this VERY interesting story in the Weekend FT(Financial Times) on 'Better Places' and what it plans to with the Fluence, which is the Leaf's Cousin.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/c0ef35cc-c06a ... ab49a.html

US edition of the FT Sept 18/19 2010 Life and Arts Page 21




Off topic: sorry but please read Lucy Kellaway on Monday's in the FT and download her Podcast. The best columnist in the English Speaking world!

It was an interesting article. I still can't imagine that the 'swap' idea has real potential, but hey, I didn't make millions founding software companies either!

Lucy is very good. The whole paper is good. The best newspaper in the English language by far.
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JPVLeaf
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Re: Are you Ready to Switch? Financial Times Satuurday Sept 18

Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:55 pm

electriclarry wrote:Please read this VERY interesting story in the Weekend FT(Financial Times) on 'Better Places' and what it plans to with the Fluence, which is the Leaf's Cousin.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/c0ef35cc-c06a ... ab49a.html

US edition of the FT Sept 18/19 2010 Life and Arts Page 21
As a primer to Shai Agassi, founder and CEO of Better Place, I would recommend watching his presentation at the TED conference (2009). He's great at conveying the urgency of getting off the oil addiction and offers a solution: EVs, whether by charging or battery swapping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcoJt2KLC9k

There's plenty more videos of his speeches on youtube.com if you're so inclined. It's just amazing what he has been able to accomplish in about 3 yrs.

Although I wish it would, I don't think the battery-swap idea will work here in the U.S. The auto manufacturers would first have to be convinced that the concept will work here. Seeing the level of skepticism Americans have towards EV's as it is now, it will be some time before the battery swapping catches on here. However, I believe he is right that the switch to EVs is going to happen. China is heading in that direction, and that alone will force the U.S. to pay attention and do the same. I believe he's gotten the ear of Obama and other influential people/politicians, here (S.F.) and around the world (Israel, Denmark, Australia, Japan and China, to name a few ....). And, that's a good thing.
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Better Place - Are you Ready to Switch? : FT

Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:21 am

Battery swapping is fine for fleets and small geographic areas, not large scale use. Good luck with this as a long term model and the infrastructure is very costly. Advancing technology is the answer. If packs were the size of grocery bags and 20 kwh then this would make more sense.

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ttweed
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Re: Are you Ready to Switch? Financial Times Satuurday Sept 18

Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:37 am

JPVLeaf wrote: Although I wish it would, I don't think the battery-swap idea will work here in the U.S. The auto manufacturers would first have to be convinced that the concept will work here.
After that, they will have to design their cars to permit quick/easy battery swaps as well. Good luck with that! I know the Leaf is not designed that way--I asked the Nissan rep directly at the recent Street Smart event here in SD, and he said it is not even possible or practical to consider at this point. Better Place has a long way to go to make this kind of program a reality here in the USA.

TT
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Are you Ready to Switch? Financial Times Satuurday Sept 18

Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:58 am

ttweed wrote:
JPVLeaf wrote: Although I wish it would, I don't think the battery-swap idea will work here in the U.S. The auto manufacturers would first have to be convinced that the concept will work here.
After that, they will have to design their cars to permit quick/easy battery swaps as well. Good luck with that! I know the Leaf is not designed that way--I asked the Nissan rep directly at the recent Street Smart event here in SD, and he said it is not even possible or practical to consider at this point. Better Place has a long way to go to make this kind of program a reality here in the USA.

TT
battery swap means a heavier car for packaging and reinforcement, etc.

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evnow
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Re: Better Place - Are you Ready to Switch? : FT

Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:09 am

The problem with Better Place is economics. Extremely capital intensive with rapidly depreciating assets.

I also think this is needed only this decade. We would have 300 mile range cars by 2020 - which allow 10 minute recharging. That is close to how people drive on freeways.
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LEAFguy
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Re: Better Place - Are you Ready to Switch? : FT

Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:23 am

EVDRIVER wrote:Battery swapping is fine for fleets and small geographic areas, not large scale use.
Exactly. This type project may work in Israel and Denmark (small geographic areas), but not really feasible when the scope includes a space the size of the US.

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Jimmydreams
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Re: Better Place - Are you Ready to Switch? : FT

Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:27 am

evnow wrote:The problem with Better Place is economics. Extremely capital intensive with rapidly depreciating assets.

I also think this is needed only this decade. We would have 300 mile range cars by 2020 - which allow 10 minute recharging. That is close to how people drive on freeways.
Excellent points. And with no clear standard yet even for L3 charging plugs, where or how are companies supposed to agree on physical size and swapability of the battery packs themselves?

It's a solution to a problem that is short lived. I firmly believe that our discussions of 'range anxiety' and 'charging times' will largely be different in only a short 2-3 year period. Once people get used to seeing Leafs, Volts, plug-in Priuses, etc., on the road, public opinion will change without most people even aware of the change.

Familarity will bring acceptance, and acceptance will REALLY bring market forces and research to bear on battery technology, design, etc. And then the fun REALLY begins!! ;)
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AndyH
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Re: Better Place - Are you Ready to Switch? : FT

Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:57 pm

LEAFguy wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Battery swapping is fine for fleets and small geographic areas, not large scale use.
Exactly. This type project may work in Israel and Denmark (small geographic areas), but not really feasible when the scope includes a space the size of the US.
Not one of my drives has covered a space the size of the US - even in my TDI with it's 1100 mile legs. ;)

I think that electrified roads with inductive charging enroute, or car-carrier trucks/trains, or both, will work better for US sized cross-state or multiple state drives.

Or a Mr. Fusion.

Whatever.
:lol:

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