GRA
Posts: 12279
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:32 pm

All GCC:
Air Liquide Hydrogen Energy applies for LCFS certification for two gaseous hydrogen pathways
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... 27-al.html

Air Liquide Hydrogen Energy is seeking California Low Carbon Fuel Standard (LCFS) certification of two pathways for gaseous hydrogen produced by steam methane reformation (SMR) produced onsite at the LAX hydrogen station, using average North American landfill gas and fossil natural gas (NA NG), respectively.

  • The pathway for gaseous hydrogen from landfill gas from onsite SMR at the LAX station and dispensed in vehicles carries a calculated carbon intensity (CI) of 158.25 gCO2e/MJ.

    The pathway for gaseous hydrogen from NA fossil natural gas from onsite SMR at the LAX station and dispensed in vehicles carries a calculated carbon intensity (CI) of 176.43 gCO2e/MJ.

Separately, AMP Americas, LLC is seeking certification of a Tier 2 pathway for biomethane production at Renewable Dairy Fuels (RDF), from anaerobic digestion of dairy manure at Fair Oaks 2.

The biomethane is pipeline-injected and supplied to CNG vehicles in California. The pathway carries a calculated CI of -255.74 gCO2e/MJ.

Green hydrogen station H2One Station Unit opens in Tsuruga City, Japan
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... baess.html

. . . The H2One Station Unit made by Toshiba ESS is a system which produces hydrogen using electric power generated by renewable energy and supplies hydrogen to fuel cell vehicles. The system is capable of producing enough hydrogen for eight hydrogen fuel cell vehicles per day in three minutes at the fastest speed.

Tsuruga City and Toshiba ESS have been studying about the construction of a supply chain in the city. Following H2One—a one-container model—the H2One Multi Station will start operation for supplying green electricity to electric vehicles and to Tsuruga City’s public wholesale market.

Everfuel awarded €6M+ grant for large-scale hydrogen production facility in Denmark
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/1 ... rfuel.html

Everfuel Europe A/S has been awarded in excess of €6 million from the Danish Energy Agency for the project HySynergy, which aims to establish a large-scale, electrolysis-based hydrogen production facility at the Shell refinery in Fredericia, Denmark.

Everfuel will be the owner and operator of the hydrogen production facility, while Shell will be main off-taker of hydrogen from the electrolyzer. Everfuel will also install hydrogen storage, trailer filling stations and operate hydrogen trailers to supply hydrogen fuel in Denmark.

  • We have been working on this project for a couple of years now, and are delighted to see that Jacob Krogsgaard and his team in Everfuel are taking another important step towards realizing renewable hydrogen production next to the refinery in Fredericia. The facility will act as a back-bone for renewable hydrogen supply in Denmark, both for the refinery itself, and also for light- and heavy-duty fuel cell electric vehicles operating in the area.

    —Jon André Løkke, CEO of Nel, which holds a minority interest in Everfuel
The parties will continue to work on permits and agreements related to the project, and are expecting to provide further details on the project during first half of 2020. Initial capacity of the electrolyzer will be 20 MW, while the location at Fredericia will be prepared to accommodate for a capacity increase of up to 1GW.

It's not clear to me if this last is renewable H2 or not. It says it's electrolysis so I'm not sure why it would need to be at a refinery, but maybe that was just the most convenient place with the necessary room for storage, appropriate safety protocols and a large-scale demand.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12279
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:38 pm

All GCC:
NREL study finds high-pressure hydrogen pipeline system could potentially make hydrogen cost-competitive with gasoline
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... -nrel.html

SQL errors so can't quote. Could and will are still a long way apart for now.
E4Tech: ~1.1 GW of fuel cell capacity shipped in 2019, up 40% from 2018; led by fuel cell vehicles
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... 4tech.html
. . . The driving force for the market continues to be fuel cell vehicles, led by Japan’s Toyota and South Korea’s Hyundai. Between them, these two companies account for two-thirds of 2019’s shipped fuel cell capacity.

With burgeoning bus, truck and van markets added in, vehicles accounted for more than 900 MW of the 1.1 GW total.

The remainder consists of stationary systems—of which US and Korean power generation units make up the bulk—and tens of thousands of Japanese CHP units installed in apartments. . . .

Asia remains the largest market for fuel cells, accounting for 680 MW, driven strongly by Hyundai NEXO sales into Korea and by Korean stationary power. Fuel cell vehicles deployed in Asia in 2019, including trucks and buses in China, constitute 50% of the total shipped fuel cell capacity worldwide.

The NEXO also accounts for some growth in European capacity, which rose from 41 MW to 69 MW in 2019. However, the biggest market outside of Asia is North America, which saw shipped capacity of 384 MW—down slightly from 425 MW in 2018, but expected to rebound in 2020.
First I've heard the scale of the latter deployment was that large.

Toyota to build prototype city of the future, powered by hydrogen fuel cells
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... woven.html
At CES, Toyota revealed plans to build a prototype “city” of the future on a 175-acre (0.71 km2) site at the base of Mt. Fuji in Japan. Called the Woven City, it will be a fully connected ecosystem powered by hydrogen fuel cells.

Envisioned as a “living laboratory,” the Woven City will serve as a home to full-time residents and researchers who will be able to test and to develop technologies such as autonomy, robotics, personal mobility, smart homes and artificial intelligence in a real-world environment. . . .

The masterplan of the city includes the designations for street usage into three types: for faster vehicles only, for a mix of lower speed, personal mobility and pedestrians, and for a park-like promenade for pedestrians only. These three street types weave together to form an organic grid pattern to help accelerate the testing of autonomy.

The city is planned to be fully sustainable, with buildings made mostly of wood to minimize the carbon footprint, using traditional Japanese wood joinery, combined with robotic production methods. The rooftops will be covered in photo-voltaic panels to generate solar power in addition to power generated by hydrogen fuel cells. Toyota plans to weave in the outdoors throughout the city, with native vegetation and hydroponics.

Residences will be equipped with the latest in human-support technologies, such as in-home robotics to assist with daily living. The homes will use sensor-based AI to check occupants’ health, take care of basic needs and enhance daily life, creating an opportunity to deploy connected technology with integrity and trust, securely and positively.

To move residents through the city, only fully-autonomous, zero-emission vehicles will be allowed on the main thoroughfares. In and throughout Woven City, autonomous Toyota e-Palettes will be used for transportation and deliveries, as well as for changeable mobile retail. . . .

Toyota plans to populate Woven City with Toyota Motor Corporation employees and their families, retired couples, retailers, visiting scientists, and industry partners. The plan is for 2000 people to start, adding more as the project evolves.

The groundbreaking for the site is planned for early 2021.

Michelin and Faurecia formalize hydrogen JV; €140M initial investment
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... ymbio.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Stoaty
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:17 am

FCEV progress in the U.S.--NOT:

https://insideevs.com/news/392360/2019- ... l-cars-us/

In other news, water is wet and the sun is expected to rise in the East today.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
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GRA
Posts: 12279
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:24 pm

Hardly a surprise given the lack of fuel for Norcal after the explosion at Air Products, which not only reduced supply for the existing stations (and required diverting fuel from SoCal) but also put back the opening of new ones. Then there's the fact that two of the three FCEVs on offer are sedans, ugly ones at that. We'll have to see if the new and much better looking/performing Toyota FCEV sedan will improve that, but what we really need is for the Nexo or something similar to be offered with AWD, plus more stations with lower-priced fuel. Even so, the U.S. was always going to be one of if not the toughest markets for FCEVs, given our low gas prices.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

WetEV
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:15 pm

WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
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GRA
Posts: 12279
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:40 pm

GCC:
Isuzu and Honda to conduct joint research on fuel-cell-powered heavy-duty trucks
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... honda.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12279
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:55 pm

GCC:
Hydrogen Council report finds cost of hydrogen solutions to fall sooner than previously expected
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... 22-hc.html


The Hydrogen Council has published a new report, Path to Hydrogen Competitiveness: A Cost Perspective, demonstrating that the cost of hydrogen solutions will fall sharply within the next decade, sooner than previously expected.

As scale-up of production, distribution and equipment manufacturing continues, cost is projected to decrease by up to 50% by 2030 for a wide range of applications, making hydrogen financially competitive with other low-carbon alternatives and, in some cases, even conventional options.

Significant cost reductions are expected across different hydrogen applications. For more than 20 of them, such as long-distance and heavy-duty transportation, industrial heating, and heavy industry feedstock, which together comprise roughly 15% of global energy consumption, the hydrogen route appears the decarbonization option of choice—a material opportunity.

The report attributes this trajectory to scale-up that positively impacts the three main cost drivers:

Strong fall in the cost of producing low carbon and renewable hydrogen;

Lower distribution and refueling costs thanks to higher load utilization and scale effect on infrastructure utilization; and

Drop in the cost of components for end-use equipment under scaling up of manufacturing.

To deliver on this opportunity, supporting policies will be required in key geographies, together with investment support of around $70 billion in the lead up to 2030 in order to scale up and achieve hydrogen competitiveness. While this figure is sizable, it accounts for less than 5% of annual global spending on energy. For comparison, support provided to renewables in Germany totalled roughly $30 billion in 2019. . . .

Direct link to report (88 pgs.):
Path to hydrogen
competitiveness
A cost perspective
https://hydrogencouncil.com/wp-content/ ... tudy-1.pdf



Also GCC:
Hyundai Motor Group Executive Vice Chairman identifies key steps to accelerate transition to hydrogen society
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... chung.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oilpan4
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:42 am

Everything everyone needs to know about hydrogen can be summed up with 2 numbers.
$16 per 1kg.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:15 pm

GCC:
Bosch boosts stake in SOFC expert Ceres Power to around 18%; possible expansion into SO electrolysis
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... ceres.html

. . . Since signing a strategic agreement in August 2018, Bosch and Ceres have been successfully collaborating in the development of fuel-cell stacks for stationary applications. This enabled Bosch to start initial low-volume production of pilot fuel-cell systems in autumn 2019 in Germany.

Bosch intends for the increased stake to further support the collaboration towards future potential scale-up and mass manufacture of the Ceres SteelCell for multiple applications including small power stations to be used in cities, factories, data centers and charge points for electric vehicles.

Ceres notes that the funds will be used to fund further product uses for solid-oxide fuel-cells and to diversify its R&D activity to potential electrolysis applications for Ceres’ technology.

Solid oxide electrolysis (SOEC) is essentially the process of reversing fuel cells to produce hydrogen and e-fuels from renewable energy. Electrolysis with Ceres’ technology could use low-cost electricity and, unique to higher temperature electrolyzers, waste heat to convert water and carbon dioxide to high value chemicals such as hydrogen and other synthetic transport fuels, precursors for fertilizers and replacements for other petrochemical products.

High temperature electrolysis can potentially play a significant role in the decarbonization of the “hard-to-abate” sectors such as steel, other industrial heat consumers and even aviation. The Ceres Board believes that there is significant future value associated with this opportunity.

Early-stage testing on the application of Ceres’ technology as a solid oxide electrolyzer (SOEC) has delivered encouraging results, the company said.

The fuel-flexible SteelCell can generate power from conventional fuels such as natural gas and from sustainable fuels such as biogas, ethanol or hydrogen and it does so at very high efficiency. . . .

Also GCC:
Nouryon-led consortium wins €11M EU backing for green hydrogen project
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... uryon.html

. . . The funding is granted by the Fuel Cells and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking (FCH-JU), a partnership of the European Commission and industry that supports the development of innovative hydrogen technologies. The 20-megawatt (MW) electrolyzer, to be owned and operated by Nouryon and Gasunie, would be the first of its kind to be implemented in Europe on this scale.

The other four partners involved are: McPhy, which will provide its innovative alkaline electrolysis technology to convert renewable electricity into 3,000 tons of green hydrogen per year; BioMCN, which will combine the hydrogen with CO2 from other processes to produce renewable methanol, reducing CO2 emissions by up to 27,000 tons per year; DeNora, a producer of electrodes, a key component of the electrolysis technology; and sustainable energy consultant Hinicio.

McPhy’s “Augmented McLyzer” electrolyzers are integrated into large-scale (multi-MW) electrolysis platforms: 20 and 100 MW and GW architectures. The systems are based on a 4 MW module design (McLyzer 800-30), producing hydrogen directly at 30 bar. . . .

Nouryon and Gasunie plan to take a final investment decision for the plant in 2020. In parallel, the two companies are studying options to increase the plant’s electrolyzer capacity from 20 MW to 60 MW to make green hydrogen to produce sustainable jet fuel in a project with another group of partners.

The project is also supported by an additional €5 million in subsidies from Waddenfonds, a fund that invests in projects in the northern Netherlands.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:38 am

GRA wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:55 pm
GCC:
Hydrogen Council report finds cost of hydrogen solutions to fall sooner than previously expected
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... 22-hc.html


The Hydrogen Council has published a new report, Path to Hydrogen Competitiveness: A Cost Perspective, demonstrating that the cost of hydrogen solutions will fall sharply within the next decade, sooner than previously expected.

As scale-up of production, distribution and equipment manufacturing continues, cost is projected to decrease by up to 50% by 2030 for a wide range of applications, making hydrogen financially competitive with other low-carbon alternatives and, in some cases, even conventional options.

Significant cost reductions are expected across different hydrogen applications. For more than 20 of them, such as long-distance and heavy-duty transportation, industrial heating, and heavy industry feedstock, which together comprise roughly 15% of global energy consumption, the hydrogen route appears the decarbonization option of choice—a material opportunity.

The report attributes this trajectory to scale-up that positively impacts the three main cost drivers:

Strong fall in the cost of producing low carbon and renewable hydrogen;

Lower distribution and refueling costs thanks to higher load utilization and scale effect on infrastructure utilization; and

Drop in the cost of components for end-use equipment under scaling up of manufacturing.

To deliver on this opportunity, supporting policies will be required in key geographies, together with investment support of around $70 billion in the lead up to 2030 in order to scale up and achieve hydrogen competitiveness. While this figure is sizable, it accounts for less than 5% of annual global spending on energy. For comparison, support provided to renewables in Germany totalled roughly $30 billion in 2019. . . .

Direct link to report (88 pgs.):
Path to hydrogen
competitiveness
A cost perspective
https://hydrogencouncil.com/wp-content/ ... tudy-1.pdf



Also GCC:
Hyundai Motor Group Executive Vice Chairman identifies key steps to accelerate transition to hydrogen society
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... chung.html
TL;DR - costs go down when production rate of components increase and cost of renewable energy to produce the hydrogen decreases.

In other words, water is wet claim. Also, cart before the horse, since the production has to increase to reduce the costs before demand can be stirred. And despite all this, a 50% cost reduction still means $8 / kg. FCEV is DOA.

Proponents are better off advocating for FC-PHEV's. At least that solution benefits from direct electricity prices for 90% of the use cases and the owners wouldn't mind paying extra for the few times they want to travel far and refuel fast. That's their niche market, because I (as do many cost-minded drivers like me) would rather wait an extra 20mins on a 6-hr road trip to save $100 ($50 if H2 costs drop as far as the article thinks it will).

Edit: cost-minded semi truck owners are even more of a cart-before-the-horse situation.
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