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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:13 pm
by GRA
Have you ever been to Delta? I have - it's got a couple of hundred miles of high desert to the north, west and south.
“Magnum’s site adjacent to the Intermountain Power Project is positioned to take full advantage of existing regional electricity grid connections, fully developed transportation infrastructure, ample solar and wind development capacity, a skilled workforce currently transitioning away from coal, and, of course, the unique salt dome opportunity.”

As long as they can get adequate water from the Colorado and Green rivers, renewable energy for electrolysis won't be a problem. ACES isn't just for H2 storage - they also plan to use flow batteries and maybe compressed air storage as well, along with SOFCs.

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:45 pm
by Oilpan4
Sounds like they are betting the entire thing on technology and talent that doesn't exist.

I would rather see the not so pie in the sky lower temperature geothermal thing first as opposed to the rube Goldberg solar hydrogen kinda battery contraption which we know is going to suffer from huge efficiency losses.

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:59 pm
by GRA
Then you should do your utmost to convince them that you're right and they're wrong.

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:38 pm
by Oilpan4
Just have to convince the nimby useful idiots that hydrogen is dangerous.

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:54 pm
by cwerdna
I received a Facebook ad for a certified used Mirai. It pointed to an offer I was able to find at https://www.buyatoyota.com/socal/landin ... fferdetail.
The Toyota Certified Used Mirai Fuel Cell Vehicle (FCEV) is powered by hydrogen, its only emission is water, and never needs to be plugged in. This innovative electric vehicle is the next step in the mobility revolution, and it’s available today. Mirai’s incentives include:

Up to 3 Years / $15,000
worth of complimentary fuel1
1.9% APR for up to 72 months2
available for well qualified Tier 1+, 1, 2 and 3 credit customers who finance through Toyota Financial Services
Authorized Toy
Toyota must be losing their shirts over these cars just to get the CA ZEV credits. On leases, they were offering 3 years/up to $15K of free fuel and now they're doing it for CPO?

I wonder if Toyota's getting their money's worth?

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:46 pm
by smkettner
Used value about $13,000. (cars.com) How much is it worth including $15,000 fuel? This has disaster written all over it.

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:08 pm
by cwerdna
It appears to be valid in Nor Cal, as well: https://www.buyatoyota.com/norcal/offer ... 2&filters=*.

Via one of their links, I found some "certified" ones at https://www.sftoyota.com/used-toyota-mi ... ertified=1 ranging from $13,990 to $17,899. I guess it might be "worth" it for someone who uses $15K worth of fuel in a year (not sure how much that propels the vehicle) and then dumps it at the end. I suspect it will be worth little by that point.

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:05 am
by coleafrado
cwerdna wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:08 pm
It appears to be valid in Nor Cal, as well: https://www.buyatoyota.com/norcal/offer ... 2&filters=*.

Via one of their links, I found some "certified" ones at https://www.sftoyota.com/used-toyota-mi ... ertified=1 ranging from $13,990 to $17,899. I guess it might be "worth" it for someone who uses $15K worth of fuel in a year (not sure how much that propels the vehicle) and then dumps it at the end. I suspect it will be worth little by that point.
I'm surprised they're so cheap. Toyota has been said to be losing $50-100k per car! If I were in California, I might actually consider getting one of those as my next daily driver. Hydrogen remains very expensive, though, at $15-18/kg, so it probably doesn't make sense yet.

$15k buys you about 1 ton of H2, and each kilogram of H2 gets you about 15 kWh or 60 miles. So... 60,000 miles?

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:26 pm
by Oils4AsphaultOnly
coleafrado wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:05 am
cwerdna wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:08 pm
It appears to be valid in Nor Cal, as well: https://www.buyatoyota.com/norcal/offer ... 2&filters=*.

Via one of their links, I found some "certified" ones at https://www.sftoyota.com/used-toyota-mi ... ertified=1 ranging from $13,990 to $17,899. I guess it might be "worth" it for someone who uses $15K worth of fuel in a year (not sure how much that propels the vehicle) and then dumps it at the end. I suspect it will be worth little by that point.
I'm surprised they're so cheap. Toyota has been said to be losing $50-100k per car! If I were in California, I might actually consider getting one of those as my next daily driver. Hydrogen remains very expensive, though, at $15-18/kg, so it probably doesn't make sense yet.

$15k buys you about 1 ton of H2, and each kilogram of H2 gets you about 15 kWh or 60 miles. So... 60,000 miles?
I can see an opportunity for someone to turo these things. 15k miles = 45 miles per day. If it can be rented for $50/day, that'll cover the price of the car within the first year, and all on Toyota's dime! It's just a matter of how you market it (free "gas" included with rental! - 50-mile daily mileage limit applies).

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:58 pm
by cwerdna
^^^^
Hmmm... interesting idea. Once this COVID-19 pandemic blows over, I may consider that.

There is a H2 fueling station just down the street from my work. But, we're on lockdown now (see https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/Diseas ... /home.aspx) so I am required to WFH since my work can be accomplished from home. And, my company unfortunately (?) doesn't fall under the category of an "essential business" as listed at https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/Diseas ... 31620.aspx.