GRA
Posts: 12488
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Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:02 pm

GCC:
ElringKlinger and VDL to partner on fuel cells
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/1 ... k-vdl.html

ElringKlinger AG and the Dutch vehicle manufacturer VDL Bus & Coach BV have agreed on a strategic partnership for the development and industrialization of fuel cell stacks and systems for mobile and stationary applications.

ElringKlinger AG will focus on the customer-specific development and production of fuel cell stacks. VDL will be primarily responsible for system integration and testing under real conditions. . . .

The declared aim of the partnership is to bring the developed fuel cell systems to production maturity in the coming year. These will be used in mobile and stationary applications such as gensets, hybrid vehicles or vehicles with range extender. The cooperation agreement is therefore initially limited until 2021.

Subsequently, concrete customer projects are already planned and under negotiation, which are to be signed before the cooperation agreement expires. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12488
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:16 pm

GCC:
Nuvera expands product line with new E-60 fuel cell system
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/1 ... uvera.html


. . . Nuvera is a subsidiary of Hyster-Yale Group, Inc., which designs, engineers, manufactures, sells, and services a comprehensive line of lift trucks and aftermarket parts marketed globally primarily under the Hyster and Yale brand names.

Was getting SQL errors so can't quote more.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12488
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:45 pm

GCC:
Havyard establishes company for hydrogen power for ships
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/1 ... vyard.html

For several years now, the Norway-based marine and maritime technology company Havyard Group has carried out research and development work on hydrogen propulsion for large vessels, for example through the Pilot E project, in order to develop a large-scale maritime hydrogen project.

Havyard’s complete hydrogen system for ships will be completed in 2021, and the group is now establishing a separate company to meet market demand for the solution, which will make it possible also for large ships to sail longer distances with zero emissions.

Havyard will have the first system ready for approval in principle next year, and its know-how and expertise will now be brought together in the newly formed company Havyard Hydrogen AS. . . .

Havyard Hydrogen will be the system integrator and will deliver complete hydrogen energy systems for ships in cooperation with partners and subcontractors. . . .

We can now offer a system with 3.2 MW fuel cells. This will make it possible for large vessels to sail with zero emissions over longer distances. At the same time, the system is scalable and can be used by both large and small vessels.

—Kristian Osnes. . . .

In addition to being scalable, the system also includes flexible placement of the hydrogen tank, so that it will be easy to place in both newbuilds and modifications. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12488
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:44 pm

GCC:
Hexagon Purus to deliver 45-foot hydrogen distribution systems to Everfuel
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/1 ... xagon.html

Hexagon Purus signed a multi-year master frame agreement with Everfuel to deliver multiple units of newly designed 45-foot hydrogen distribution systems. The systems will be used to transport hydrogen to refueling stations serving hydrogen fuel cell electric passenger car fleets (e.g. taxis), trucks and buses. At signing, Everfuel ordered its first six distribution units under the new frame agreement.

The master frame agreement covers design, production and delivery of hydrogen distribution systems for Everfuel through 2025, with an estimated value of approximately €14 million.

Hexagon Purus is a leading provider of type 4 cylinders—fiber composite cylinders with plastic lining. Type 4 cylinders provide a combination of weight, safety, efficiency and durability for hydrogen applications. . . .

Hexagon Purus has developed a hydrogen distribution system with a nominal payload capacity of 958 kg of compressed hydrogen at 300 bar. The new design includes an advanced monitoring system for improved filling efficiency. . . .

The first order under the new frame agreement will be delivered in 2021.

This is considerably greater capacity than was previously the case in a trailer transporting gaseous H2 (ISTR something around 120-180 kg. was typical), and I'm curious how they accomplish this. The low transport capacity for gaseous H2 was the reason First Element switched to liquid H2 tankers & bulk storage for their new, larger capacity stations.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12488
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:10 pm

Both GCC:
UNSW Sydney to lead hydrogen supply chain study with Germany
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/1 ... -unsw.html

Australia and Germany have released national hydrogen strategies to help grow the development of renewable hydrogen as a clean source of energy. UNSW Sydney will lead a consortium of Australian research and industry partners, who will work together with partners in Germany to test the feasibility of a renewable energy-based hydrogen supply chain between the two countries.

The feasibility study—which was awarded from the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade over two years—will look for opportunities to collaborate with Australian and German industries on the production, storage, transport and use of hydrogen produced from renewable energy sources. It will also assess current technologies, identify regulatory and logistical barriers, and recommend business models for the development of this two-way trade and investment. . . .

Hyundai Motor and INEOS partnering on driving hydrogen economy forward
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/1 ... rward.html

. . . Hyundai and INEOS will jointly investigate opportunities for the production and supply of hydrogen as well as the worldwide deployment of hydrogen applications and technologies. Both companies will initially seek to facilitate public- and private-sector projects focused on the development of a hydrogen value chain in Europe.

The agreement also includes the evaluation of Hyundai’s proprietary fuel cell system for the recently announced INEOS Grenadier 4x4 vehicle. This cooperation represents an important step in INEOS’ efforts to diversify its powertrain options at an early stage. . . .

Through its subsidiary INOVYN, INEOS is Europe’s largest existing operator of electrolysis, the critical technology that uses renewable energy to produce hydrogen for power generation, transportation and industrial use. Its experience in storage and handling of hydrogen combined with its established know-how in electrolysis technology, puts INEOS in a unique position to drive progress towards a carbon-free future based on hydrogen. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12488
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:06 pm

IEVS:
Hyzon Motors Unveils Fuel Cell Stack With Highest Power Density: 6 KW/L
https://insideevs.com/news/456454/hyzon ... sity-6kwl/
. . . Hyzon said its automotive-grade fuel cell stack – which can be used in vehicles without future reliability problem concerns – is under development for the past 20 years. Hyzon’s stack is also liquid-cooled, and the company claims that it makes it perfect for commercial vehicles and machinery. To be even more specific, it would fit well in trains, trucks, and airplanes. Craig Knight, Hyzon’s CEO, told InsideEVs there’s a reason for that.

“Hyzon focuses on commercial vehicles because the strongest value proposition for hydrogen is very high utilization vehicles.”

These liquid-cooled PEM fuel cell stacks could generate up to 370 kW (500 hp) and would allow these vehicles to save on weight, increasing their load capacities. Cost and size would be other benefits for using their new fuel cell – something Nikola Motors also argues.

These new, more power-dense fuel cells will enter mass production in 2021 in all Hyzon production facilities in North America, Europe, and Asia. By 2025, the company expects to be able to power more than 40,000 vehicles with its PEM fuel cell.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12488
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:57 pm

GCR:
Hyundai hydrogen fuel-cell system might power French-made Grenadier off-road SUV
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... f-road-suv

The Ineos Grenadier is a throwback to a previous era of SUVs, when off-road capability was a given—along with poor fuel economy. But the Grenadier could soon get a hydrogen fuel-cell powertrain from Hyundai.

On Monday, Ineos and Hyundai announced a memorandum of understanding to cooperate on fuel-cell projects. The agreement includes plans for Ineos to evaluate Hyundai fuel-cell tech for possible use in the Grenadier, an accompanying press release said. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12488
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:11 pm

GCC:
MOL joins “Wind Hunter Project” for combination of sails and fuel cells on ships
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/1 ... 1-mol.html



While under sail they plan to use an in-water turbine to provide electricity for electrolysis, so they can use H2 in periods of low wind. This strikes me as a longshot, as the turbine would presumably slow the ship when under sail, eliminating some if not all the advantage. They plan to use a sailing yacht as a proof of concept vehicle, and I'll be interested to see numbers on this.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:26 pm

GRA wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:11 pm
GCC:
MOL joins “Wind Hunter Project” for combination of sails and fuel cells on ships
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/1 ... 1-mol.html



While under sail they plan to use an in-water turbine to provide electricity for electrolysis, so they can use H2 in periods of low wind. This strikes me as a longshot, as the turbine would presumably slow the ship when under sail, eliminating some if not all the advantage. They plan to use a sailing yacht as a proof of concept vehicle, and I'll be interested to see numbers on this.
It's worse than a longshot. It's a dumb idea. That document shows a separate turbine to generate the electricity to run the electrolyzer AND a separate electric motor to propel the vehicle during those no wind days. In the meantime, Oceanvolt already makes an electric motor with a regeneration mode for sailboats (plenty of sailors already using them). Connect it to a battery bank and it'll store the electricity from the regen mode AND solar panels on the roof of the sailboat for use for the cabin electronics AND to run the propellers during those "no wind" days. I wonder how many tens or hundreds of kwh of batteries can be used to supplant all the equipment needed for the electrolyzer, compressor, hydrogen tanks, fuel cells, and turbine? What a waste of time and engineering resources!
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GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:54 pm

I agree that the separate generator turbine seems unnecessary at first sight, but if best efficiency of the propulsion motor/propeller and generator/blades varies significantly due to speed, it may be worth doing. I expect they'll determine which way to go as the design is refined. What they show in that illustration strikes me as just a basic concept.

Re batteries/panels plus wind, if space and weight weren't an issue that might work. As this is eventually intended for an ocean-going cargo ship that will have to float, batteries/panels strike me as an even longer shot than this. Solar-powered cars, which require much less power/ mile and have a much greater proportional exposed surface area for panels than would be the case here (as the sails & masts would block many of the modules) have never shown much practical value for long-range propulsion or cargo-hauling; running auxiliary loads is a different matter.

I await test results of this, without any great expectation of practicality.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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