Economics of Renewable Power, simplified.

[RegGuheert]

Wow, this thread went seriously OT.

Yep. SageBrush was spouting off again...

It seems that our resident physician (and everyone else here) is completely ignorant of the important interaction between measles disease and the human immune system: Measles acts like a "reset cache" button for the immune system, causing it to completely forget everything which it had previously identified as harmful. So is this good or bad? It's certainly bad if you are subsequently exposed to a dangerous disease that you previously had immunity for. OTOH, if the immune system has incorrectly targeted part of the body instead of an invader, then this could be an extremely valuable function.

Here are my predictions:

1) In the near future, drug companies will start marketing measles as a "miracle cure" for autoimmune disorder.

2) Drug companies will never admit that the rising epidemic of autoimmune disorders was caused by preventing measles using the measles vaccine.

That way, they can sell BOTH the measles vaccine AND measles as a treatment for autoimmune disorders.

And, yes, Dr. SageBrush, you read it here first.

[SageBrush]

Measles acts like a "reset cache" button for the immune system, causing it to completely forget everything which it had previously identified as harmful.

BS

[GRA]

To offer an on-topic post, I wish to make a correction to the number I posted earlier about the miles of transmission lines in the U.S. I mis-remembered (and mis-converted from km) it as 435,000 miles, but it's actually about 200,000 miles, so 40k miles of new transmission line would be about 20%, not 10%. A 2011 estimate of the cost to build that came in at about $100 billion, so large but doable given the size of our economy, GIVEN THE DESIRE/WILL to do so. Naturally, it would cost more now. Here's a study by Black and Veatch (same eng. firm that has designed Tesla's SC sites and the EA QC sites in California) from 2014, which indicates that the capital cost per mile for a 600kV DC line would be $1.6132 million (see pg. 1-1), not counting the cost of DC converters ($506,779,350/unit):

CAPITAL COSTS FOR TRANSMISSION
AND SUBSTATIONS  
Updated Recommendations for WECC
Transmission Expansion Planning

https://www.wecc.org/Reliability/2014_T ... rt_B+V.pdf

As with much of the rest of our infrastructure we've been under-maintaining and not adding enough to the existing transmission capacity to keep up with the growth in demand for decades: from 1999-2009 demand increased by 20%, but transmission capacity only increased by 3%. I don't have more recent numbers for that.

And now, feel free to return to vax/anti-vax argument.

[WetEV]

Measles acts like a "reset cache" button for the immune system, causing it to completely forget everything which it had previously identified as harmful.

BS

Smelly BS.

Off topic BS.

Deadly BS.

[Oilpan4]

The anti vacciner thing only has one logical outcome.
It's only going to be cool until the vaccinated population drops below 80 or 90% and then we see a super pandemic of an easily preventable illness.

[SageBrush]

The anti vacciner thing only has one logical outcome.
It's only going to be cool until the vaccinated population drops below 80 or 90% and then we see a super pandemic of an easily preventable illness.

Prior to widespread vaccination in the USA from the mid 1960s about 500 people died a year, and up to 10% of vulnerable groups (IIRC) suffered complications. In the larger scheme of things, Measles cannot compare to say AGW. It certainly makes sense though for insurance to refuse to pay for medical care of complications in the un-vaccinated without medical justification, and for people who are infected by anti-vaxxers despite their vaccination to seek redress.

[iPlug]

Prior to widespread vaccination in the USA from the mid 1960s about 500 people died a year, and up to 10% of vulnerable groups (IIRC) suffered complications. In the larger scheme of things, Measles cannot compare to say AGW.

Hard to argue with that.

But one of my concerns, at the individual level, is that an anti-vaxxer proselytizer seems to be much more contagious/virulent than an anti-AGW proselytizer.

[LeftieBiker]

But one of my concerns, at the individual level, is that an anti-vaxxer proselytizer seems to be much more contagious/virulent than an anti-AGW proselytizer.

That's because there is no real evidence that we haven't caused AGW, but there is solid evidence that pharmacological companies have, in the past, produced dangerous vaccines. They don't appear to have been dangerous in the way the anti-vaccination people think, but there was smoke, even if from a different fire. The motivation behind not believing in AGW is the ingrained desire to believe that we do the right things in our daily lives, not the most dangerous worst things...

[SageBrush]

Prior to widespread vaccination in the USA from the mid 1960s about 500 people died a year, and up to 10% of vulnerable groups (IIRC) suffered complications. In the larger scheme of things, Measles cannot compare to say AGW.

Hard to argue with that.

But one of my concerns, at the individual level, is that an anti-vaxxer proselytizer seems to be much more contagious/virulent than an anti-AGW proselytizer.

Measles is not going to put society at risk. I wish I could say the same for AGW
Please don't take my comment as anything but 100% support for vaccinations. I was just pointing out the difference in scale of the effects.

By the way, have you ever met a physician who does not encourage vaccinations ? I have not, and that probably covers a few hundred colleagues.

[iPlug]

Prior to widespread vaccination in the USA from the mid 1960s about 500 people died a year, and up to 10% of vulnerable groups (IIRC) suffered complications. In the larger scheme of things, Measles cannot compare to say AGW.

Hard to argue with that.

But one of my concerns, at the individual level, is that an anti-vaxxer proselytizer seems to be much more contagious/virulent than an anti-AGW proselytizer.

Measles is not going to put society at risk. I wish I could say the same for AGW
Please don't take my comment as anything but 100% support for vaccinations. I was just pointing out the difference in scale of the effects.

By the way, have you ever met a physician who does not encourage vaccinations ? I have not, and that probably covers a few hundred colleagues.

Agree with AGW>>anti-vaxxer risks to society.

No, have also met hundreds of other physicians and not one anything but pro-vaccination. The funny thing is that many of them are dispassionate, not easily stirred to defending any particular causes. But the one thing that will often rile them up is the anti-vaxxer stuff.