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evnow
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1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:44 pm

I'll post a detailed blog on this later - with modification that come out of comments.

I'm trying to compare the Gas usage and fuel, ownership costs of various options a car buyer has now. Ofcourse the actual numbers will somewhat change depending on the usage pattern and assumptions. I've used simplistic 10 way division of price, for eg.

I don't have clear examples of compact ICE cars to get a the price of similarly equipped trims. ANy suggestions ?

Interesting thing to note here is that a $15K ICE that just gives 20 mpg has the highest cost of ownership. Higher than a PHEV that costs more than twice to buy.

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Boomer23
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Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:23 pm

Great idea.

For sources of prices, invoice costs of models and trims of ICE cars, Edmunds.com is the go-to source. You can price out any model and trim level and the site actually gives you the MSRP and invoice pricing, as well as what others are paying by region. They also have a True Cost To Own calculator that you might be able to use to check your calcs against.
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Boomer23
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Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:42 pm

As an adjunct to this, I've been thinking that potential PHEV buyers could benefit from guidance as to whether a PHEV or a HEV such as a Prius might be their best choice, given their particular driving characteristics.

For instance, if their driving scenario includes daily 90 mile round trips, is a more expensive PHEV with 37 mpg CS mode better than a less expensive HEV with 50 mpg overall? At what daily mileage does the break-even occur?
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evnow
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Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:12 pm

Boomer23 wrote:For sources of prices, invoice costs of models and trims of ICE cars, Edmunds.com is the go-to source.
Yes - but I need to know where to start. I don't see anything in $15K range that is comparable in size to Leaf/Prius. Civic is a good comparison - but in $18 to $20K range with 30 mpg. Also, is there a 20 mpg car compact/mid-size car at all ?
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
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Boomer23
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Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:36 pm

Subaru Impreza has price around $17,500 with mileage 19-22 mpg.

Start at Edmunds with Sedans, sort by price $15-25K, mileage less than 25 mpg.
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greenleaf
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Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:44 pm

Would it be possible to incorporate depreciation costs?

I have the feeling that battery depreciation might tipped the balance against the BEV, giving it the worst cost of ownership instead of the best.
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evnow
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Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:03 pm

greenleaf wrote:Would it be possible to incorporate depreciation costs?

I have the feeling that battery depreciation might tipped the balance against the BEV, giving it the worst cost of ownership instead of the best.
I've depreciated all cars over 10 years.

One option I thought of was to use lease payments. That would account for depreciation as well as interest. But the $350/month for Volt (because of very low depreciation they have used) would tilt the balance. But that would be an objective way to compare depreciation.
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DeaneG
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Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:43 pm

The part I stumbled with was in incorporating a variable electricity rate into a model. Cost comparisons are straightforward enough in a flat or tiered rate structure (check your bills for the last 12 months to see what your incremental rate was each month, and guess if your rate would stay the same while charging an EV).

But given the possibility of switching to time-of-use rates, and assessing TOU impact each month on your historical electricity bills, guessing your new incremental rate(s) isn't easy, nor is calculating your updated present electricity cost under a TOU rate structure. If you need to run an air conditioner during the day, your rates become spiky enough that calculating an "average" monthly use will not be enough to accurately model your future costs.

In my case, I installed a 3kW PV system as a hedge to keep my Leaf charging costs reasonable. I wouldn't have done this without the EV purchase. My electricity rate structure, including my household (non-EV-charging) consumption and costs, will change completely as a result.

About this time next year, I expect to have an accurate picture of my charging costs. But I have no easy way to predict it right now to better than about a factor of two accuracy, since I don't have access to my historical month-by-month hourly energy usage and my utility has a steeply tiered TOU rate structure.

The approach I'm going with instead is "don't worry; be happy" :D
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evnow
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Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:52 pm

Boomer23 wrote:Subaru Impreza has price around $17,500 with mileage 19-22 mpg.

Start at Edmunds with Sedans, sort by price $15-25K, mileage less than 25 mpg.
The closest size fit is Mazda 3 hatchback. That doesn't even come with Navigation option ! Impreza is a little smaller and with navigation & XM comes to $22K.

There just isn't a ICE car below $20K with nav and other features that come standard with Leaf & Volt.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
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evnow
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Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:53 pm

DeaneG wrote:The part I stumbled with was in incorporating a variable electricity rate into a model.
Yes - people in CA have a lot of figure out. Including taxes & 5K incentives. For us in the NW - it is fairly simple.

ps : Actually I've given benefit of doubt to ICE/hybrids here - in WA there is no sales tax (almost 10%) on BEV.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
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