charlie1300
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Location: Albany, NY

Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:08 pm

Just a comment on the rental car cost for BEV long trips. My wife has been using Price Line for renting Midsize/standard cars when we fly to vacation spots for the past several years. Never had to pay more than $20/day rental - add in the fees and taxes (but no rental insurance) and it usually totals $30/day. So I think you can conservatively reduce that cost to $35/day.
reserved : 05/25/2010
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Order date: 1/21/2012
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delivery date: April 5, 2012

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evnow
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Location: Seattle, WA

Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:38 pm

charlie1300 wrote:So I think you can conservatively reduce that cost to $35/day.
So, go with a 30 mpg car @ $35/day instead of 50 mpg Prius @ $50 ?

That will reduce cost, but increase gas usage.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

greenleaf
Posts: 519
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Location: SF Bay Area

Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:29 pm

evnow wrote:
greenleaf wrote:Would it be possible to incorporate depreciation costs?

I have the feeling that battery depreciation might tipped the balance against the BEV, giving it the worst cost of ownership instead of the best.
I've depreciated all cars over 10 years.

One option I thought of was to use lease payments. That would account for depreciation as well as interest. But the $350/month for Volt (because of very low depreciation they have used) would tilt the balance. But that would be an objective way to compare depreciation.
For the ICE cars, there would still be some residue value at the end of 10 years. I recently sold my 10-year old car and it was worth like 25% ~ 30% of the original value.

For the Leaf, the value of the batteries would probably be zero by the end of 10 years. If I use a guesstimate that battery cost is 50% of the car cost, and the rest of the car depreciates to the same 30%, then the residue of the BEV would only be 15% at the end of 10 years.

Of course all these are just my speculation, and I have no idea what is the battery replacement cost a few years down the road.
2011 Leaf: reserved 4/2010, delivered 3/2011 (VIN 9XX), sold 2/2014.
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evnow
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
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Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:52 pm

greenleaf wrote: Of course all these are just my speculation, and I have no idea what is the battery replacement cost a few years down the road.
Moreover is the depreciation from 32k or 25k ?

How much will the ICE be worth if the gas is @ $8 ...

BTW, my low miles 10 year old Maxima is only worth 15%.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
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DarkStar
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:06 am
Delivery Date: 25 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 568
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
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Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:11 pm

greenleaf wrote:For the ICE cars, there would still be some residue value at the end of 10 years. I recently sold my 10-year old car and it was worth like 25% ~ 30% of the original value.

For the Leaf, the value of the batteries would probably be zero by the end of 10 years. If I use a guesstimate that battery cost is 50% of the car cost, and the rest of the car depreciates to the same 30%, then the residue of the BEV would only be 15% at the end of 10 years.

Of course all these are just my speculation, and I have no idea what is the battery replacement cost a few years down the road.
I disagree, my former 6 year old ICE vehicle needed major maintenance equaling about 1/3 of the current value. The initial estimates for the Leaf indicate that the battery pack is only equal to about 1/3 of total vehicle cost and with the crazy advances that have been made in the last 5 years with battery technology we should expect the cost to be less than half what it is today in 5-6 years. Putting 16-20,000 miles on my ICE didn't help, but I think that assuming the battery will need to be replaced should be compared to having to replace the entire ICE engine in order for the estimates to be accurate, thus should be a wash...
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greenleaf
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Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:35 pm

I guess my having owned a Camry that did not give me any trouble for the past 10 years and also fetching me a good resale value skewed my opinion. Sorry.
2011 Leaf: reserved 4/2010, delivered 3/2011 (VIN 9XX), sold 2/2014.
EVP Blink EVSE installed 4/2011.
OpenEVSE installed 3/2014.
3.22 kW DC Solar PV.

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DeaneG
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Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 594
Location: Cupertino, CA

Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:07 pm

greenleaf wrote:I guess my having owned a Camry that did not give me any trouble for the past 10 years and also fetching me a good resale value skewed my opinion. Sorry.
Your 10-year-old Camry probably passed by my 9-year-old Mercedes, which was hooked to a tow truck on its way to the scrap yard! Fortunately, they're heavy, so there is some residual value when remelted.
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charlie1300
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:23 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2012
Location: Albany, NY

Re: 1-Car Family : Gas usage & cost for ICE, Hybrid, PHEV & BEV

Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:30 am

evnow wrote:
charlie1300 wrote:So I think you can conservatively reduce that cost to $35/day.
So, go with a 30 mpg car @ $35/day instead of 50 mpg Prius @ $50 ?

That will reduce cost, but increase gas usage.

Interesting question, I'm trying to imagine myself in the position of having only a BEV, which won't be my real situation. I think I would opt for choosing the occasional rental based on the lowest possible cost available at the time that I am renting.
reserved : 05/25/2010
AV installed : What, do you think I'm crazy? Got Phil's EVSE upgrade!
Order letter : 9/29/2011
Order date: 1/21/2012
MY Leaf: RED! SL
delivery date: April 5, 2012

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