Chelsea Sexton’s Volt EVSE Woes Don’t Bode Well for You & Me

http://www.bnet.com/blog/electric-cars/chelsea-sexton-8217s-volt-charger-woes-don-8217t-bode-well-for-you-and-me/2514?tag=content;drawer-container

If Chelsea Sexton is having a problem installing her EV charger, it doesn’t bode well for what will happen when ordinary people do battle with their homeowners’ association, their town hall and their charging company.
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But California’s public utilities commission requires all of its customers’ electric meters to be grouped together, and that meant running a one-inch thick metal conduit along the face of her building. The other option is to punch through three neighbors’ walls. “I can just see the homeowners’ association going for that,” she said.

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The issue is not the EVSE it's the TOU meter.

EVDRIVER said:

The issue is not the EVSE it's the TOU meter.

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True. But they are all related ... as we say in IT - the end to end scenario should work.

I wish she would explain why she would not go whole house TOU vs the EV TOU with separate meter.
With a Volt she would probably be fine with L1 charging and whole house TOU and need no installation of anything.

smkettner said:

I wish she would explain why she would not go whole house TOU vs the EV TOU with separate meter.
With a Volt she would probably be fine with L1 charging and whole house TOU and need no installation of anything.

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Good point. It looks like my best option is whole house TOU. I think they charge so much for a second meter that any kWh savings would be erased and more by the monthly meter charge. That calculation might change if the utility finally adopts an EV rate that is much lower than off-peak TOU rate. Right now they're about the same, though one of the EV rates being studied in the EV Project has about a 7 cents super off-peak rate versus 11 cents regular TOU off-peak (with much higher on-peak penalty). I'll have to study the available rate structures more when my delivery is in sight.

Indeed it looks like she could charge a Volt or a Leaf with L2. There was no issue with installing the EVSE, so long as she went with whole house TOU.

smkettner said:

I wish she would explain why she would not go whole house TOU vs the EV TOU with separate meter.
With a Volt she would probably be fine with L1 charging and whole house TOU and need no installation of anything.

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I think this is a poor article as it fails to disclose that most people will not use separate TOU meters and as a multi-family home with a 200A panel in the garage it would otherwise be an easy installation compared to most. And why would she have any more clout with an HOA or other third party group, I doubt they even know who she is. This sounds more like an ABG article title to drum up attention.

EVDRIVER said:

The issue is not the EVSE it's the TOU meter.

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The problem is in the California Public Utility Commission's electricity rate structures, which basically make EV charging incompatible with houses which need air conditioning (most of central and southern california). This is going to give EV's a black eye in California right when the public is starting to form an opinion.

I am hoping that the CPUC is capable of figuring out some solution which does not try to substitute expensive hardware (a second meter) for a problem that can be solved in software. But I guess my recent solar PV installation is a bet against it.

smkettner said:

I wish she would explain why she would not go whole house TOU vs the EV TOU with separate meter.
With a Volt she would probably be fine with L1 charging and whole house TOU and need no installation of anything.

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Whole-house TOU would significantly increase her household electricity bill without adding an EV, if she uses air conditioning in the afternoons. You have to consider this increased cost when calculating the total cost of charging an EV in California.

At my house, we use relatively little electricity except for summer A/C on many afternoons. Switching to whole-house TOU would give my Leaf a driving cost approximately equivalent to an eight-mpg ICE through the months of July/Aug/Sep. It's more like 80mpg in Jan/Feb. But the average cost through the year would still be unappealing.

How much power is she using? I did the calculations and using the LEAF I'd only be pushed into the 2nd tier (below 1830 Kw per 60 day billing cycle) which is .11 peak season with GWP.

Granted we rarely use AC but that calculation still holds true even with last month's crazy AC use at our house. (it was HOT!)

Also, we only have a ~1100 sq foot house so there isn't a tremendous amount to cool. We're also installing a whole house fan soon too so we can use the AC even less than what we do.

We don't need second meters here for charging stations, but for PVs we need an extra one which is free.

I've sent a PM to Chelsea on this ....

DeaneG said:

smkettner said:

I wish she would explain why she would not go whole house TOU vs the EV TOU with separate meter.
With a Volt she would probably be fine with L1 charging and whole house TOU and need no installation of anything.

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Whole-house TOU would significantly increase her household electricity bill without adding an EV, if she uses air conditioning in the afternoons. You have to consider this increased cost when calculating the total cost of charging an EV in California.

At my house, we use relatively little electricity except for summer A/C on many afternoons. Switching to whole-house TOU would give my Leaf a driving cost approximately equivalent to an eight-mpg ICE through the months of July/Aug/Sep. It's more like 80mpg in Jan/Feb. But the average through the year would still be unappealing.

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The article seems to describe Chelsea as a miser just in tier 1. She may well never use air conditioning. I find it hard to predict the effect of TOU without TOU data. Once we all have smart meters this will be simple. My smart meter is scheduled to be installed in about 14 months.

I personally keep the thermostat fairly high until the sun goes down in summer. Then the air cranks on about 8p and even lower at 1a while I sleep. Fairly cool by morning allows my house to coast through the day pretty good. My bill is half what my neighbors pay. I am not yet on TOU but I think it will work for me whole house. Throw the Leaf in will be a slam dunk.

Anyway it depends on specific usage by the individual

Hi all,

Wow, I'm amazed my little install has attracted so much interest- whether here or with the article in the first place.

It's true that my issues are primarily with my meter. With respect to the actual install in my garage, it's easier than many single family homes I've dealt with, given the abundance of panel capacity and that the panel's already in my garage. Even the meter issues are nothing new, but the fact that two site visits in the course of a month before the install (by GM and SCE) didn't reveal the issue suggests that there are process improvement opportunities all around- which is exactly what the CAB program was meant to uncover. But even the electrician looked at the situation the first time (the day before the scheduled install) and thought they'd just stick the second meter at my garage rather than have to run all the conduit, not realizing it's not allowed- But, such alternatives may end up being worth seeking PUC approval for. DWP's approach of simply discounting a certain block of kWh presumed to be used by the car is also an alternative, especially if that block can be excluded from the home's regular tier. Ultimately, the utilities want to see the meter embedded in the EVSE, but that's likely a few years away, so the current discussion is around what alternatives are worth pursuing for all the different situations we encounter in this process.

You're absolutely right that my HOA/neighbors have no idea "who I am" (I'd say there's not much to know!) and that I have no particular clout with them or anyone else. I'm waiting on estimates to run conduit for the meter, but have no inherent confidence that they'll go for it. Total toss-up, that one is.

As far as alternatives, it's true that a whole house TOU is my next best bet, but according to both SCE's online calculator as well as a custom one they ran on my exact usage, it would cost at least 50% more/year. Still, it's what I'll pick if I can't get the separate TOU-EV-1 meter. Staying on Schedule D (their normal residential rate) is what puts me higher than the cost I'm currently paying for gas. As some have suspected, it's because I'm in the lowest tier now- averaging ~11kWh/day. I have an air conditioner, but it's been turned on maybe once in the couple years we've lived here. So without a separate meter, the car pushes everything into a higher tier, regardless of the time of day I charge. And I could just use 120v, but that doesn't solve the meter/rate issue-consumption is consumption. I'm also trying to plan ahead for when the CAB program ends- ultimately I still want a plug-in to live more permanently in my garage, and will have to sort this stuff at some point.

So, installing a second meter next to the current meter is a problem because running the conduit from the second meter to the garage is not easy ... right ? My guess is this is probably true for a lot of homes.

The real problem with these kinds of things is that - it will make anyone who is at the edge of buying an EV vs ICE - will probably move to the ICE side. Definitely one more barrier for EV adoption.

evnow said:

So, installing a second meter next to the current meter is a problem because running the conduit from the second meter to the garage is not easy ... right ? My guess is this is probably true for a lot of homes.

The real problem with these kinds of things is that - it will make anyone who is at the edge of buying an EV vs ICE - will probably move to the ICE side. Definitely one more barrier for EV adoption.

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So, what's the solution then for widespread adoption? There are going to be a lot of such 'problem' cases if home charging is to make up a majority of the refueling. What are realistic conversion rates (0.5%, 1%, 2%, 5% ....)? The easiest conversion cases are the relatively new owner-occupied single family homes ... whose owners have disposable income, and have at least some appreciation for 'going green'. What about the rest? Unfortunately, I don't think most will have quite as much patience as the enthusiast crowd to overcome these hurdles. Something still seems to be missing.

If that guy on the fence between an ICE and an EV chooses the ICE, it might be another 3-5 yrs before that particular driver might have another opportunity to consider going EV. Each one of those cases over the near term just delays the fleet wide conversion ... and causes people to conclude that EVs are 'just not ready yet'.

The problem is not the difficulty of running the conduit, or even the "easy-to-read" meter location regulation that requires the long run. It is getting the PERMISSION to place the conduit where it can be seen (ugly, and MIGHT damage the exterior that the HOA is responsible for maintaining).

In the future, "smart" (remote) reading of meters should make the placement less critical, but they might still need to be accessible unless they are truly tamper-proof. Also, traditionally, the meters are owned by the PU, so they "must" be placed where the PU can access them, for maintenance.

JPVLeaf said:

So, what's the solution then for widespread adoption?..

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Rate structures which more or less require a second meter must be obsoleted by a software solution on existing smartmeters, or a meter built into the EVSE.

DeaneG said:

JPVLeaf said:

So, what's the solution then for widespread adoption?..

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Rate structures which more or less require a second meter must be obsoleted by a software solution on existing smartmeters, or a meter built into the EVSE.

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There is "zigbee", no reason why a zigbee equiped smart meter, couldn't read a zigbee equiped EVSE, and the utility could directly read the usage of the EVSE. None of these extra meters, extra wiring, or extrodinary measures are needed, any longer.

http://www.zigbee.org/Markets/ZigBeeSmartEnergy/Overview.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZigBee

http://www.ti.com/corp/docs/landing/smartmetering/index.html?DCMP=Metering&HQS=Other+OT+metering
watch the video, "electric vehicles" are specifically mentioned.

evnow said:

So, installing a second meter next to the current meter is a problem because running the conduit from the second meter to the garage is not easy ... right ? My guess is this is probably true for a lot of homes.

The real problem with these kinds of things is that - it will make anyone who is at the edge of buying an EV vs ICE - will probably move to the ICE side. Definitely one more barrier for EV adoption.

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Maybe in CA and WA, but not AZ. Someone has made it very complicated and expensive there, when it should be simple. Here, people use the same 'Smart' or TOU meter for charging as they do for the rest of their home electric needs. With PVs, very inexpensive, but if someone doesn't have PVs, they still would only pay .07/Kwh off-peak in fall/winter with a Smart meter. The off-peak rate is a little less with a TOU.

LEAFfan said:

Maybe in CA and WA, but not AZ.

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Actually it is only in CA. in WA we don't have TOU ... atleast not my PU.