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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:54 pm
by SageBrush
GRA wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:31 pm
ABG:
470,000 German consumers participate in diesel court case against VW
'A settlement is very difficult, but possible'
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/09/30/vw- ... ettlement/
I suspect that this case is *really* important to whether VW survives. Not so much the case itself or the 500,000 participants but the possibility that a VW loss will open the flood-gates to litigation in the other countries in Europe. I think I read that over 20 million cars were produced for Europe with the defeat devices.

Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:20 pm
by LeftieBiker
The solution I'd support would be for VW to be taken over by the German Government, and used to produce EVs and PHEVs. I find I can't shed a tear for a company started by Nazis and that kept much of that mindset for most (all?) of its existence.

Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:31 pm
by SageBrush
VW would have already collapsed under the weight of the 30+ billion USD fines and penalties if not for credit lines arranged for them by the German govt. I cannot say if another $30 billion .... or more ... is possible. I presume it would require the German government to guarantee repayment and a loan payment scheme that stretches out a **long** time at sub-inflation rates.

Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:45 am
by coulomb
LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:20 pm
I find I can't shed a tear for a company started by Nazis and that kept much of that mindset for most (all?) of its existence.
Is that perhaps a little harsh? :o

Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:07 am
by SageBrush
coulomb wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:45 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:20 pm
I find I can't shed a tear for a company started by Nazis and that kept much of that mindset for most (all?) of its existence.
Is that perhaps a little harsh? :o
How much do you know of VW history from WWII onwards ?

I'm more inclined to view VW in the same way I view the Catholic Church: Extremely hierarchal, with an organizational certainly that corporate success justifies and cleanses just about any immorality.

Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:48 am
by Oilpan4
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:17 pm
by LeftieBiker
coulomb wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:45 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:20 pm
I find I can't shed a tear for a company started by Nazis and that kept much of that mindset for most (all?) of its existence.
Is that perhaps a little harsh? :o

Funny (true) story: when VW was trying to combat the sensible bias against stinking diesel engines, they proposed a study to come up with some positive data for PR purposes. They would subject a group of human test subjects to diesel exhaust, pumped in from a diesel engine in the test facility. When American partners strenuously objected to this, they seemed genuinely surprised, and then proposed, reluctantly, that they supposed they could do it with monkeys (IIRC) instead.

I guess that you do have to know a bit about WWII, Nazis, and the Final Solution to fully appreciate the above.

Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:58 pm
by SageBrush
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:17 pm

Funny (true) story: when VW was trying to combat the sensible bias against stinking diesel engines, they proposed a study to come up with some positive data for PR purposes. They would subject a group of human test subjects to diesel exhaust, pumped in from a diesel engine in the test facility. When American partners strenuously objected to this, they seemed genuinely surprised, and then proposed, reluctantly, that they supposed they could do it with monkeys (IIRC) instead.

I guess that you do have to know a bit about WWII, Nazis, and the Final Solution to fully appreciate the above.
.
That sounds like a fine PR move to me ... using the VW board of directors and senior management. They can eat their own dogfood, as it were.

Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:10 pm
by coulomb
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:17 pm
Funny (true) story: when VW ... proposed a study... They would subject a group of human test subjects to diesel exhaust...
I have to admit I had to fact check that one. You were none too harsh, it seems. Thanks for the reality check.

Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:41 pm
by GRA
Seeing as how Ford was mentioned, their history isn't particularly clean either, if not rising to VW's level.