LeftieBiker
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:46 am

The problem is that those systems are human labor intensive. It isn't a lack of funding (except that farm and meat packing workers are very underpaid with few or no benefits), it's a system that requires large numbers of people working in close quarters.
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powersurge
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:24 am

And with all of our technology we cannot think of a safe way to cut and pack meat?

Also, Do they think we are stupid by telling us that food gathering in the fields is "dangerous"? I always thought that plant harvesting was highly mechanized and I cannot believe that some harvesting workers cannot stay safely away from other workers in the giant fields////

You have to think that this full-country "shut down" is commanded by politicians that just want to look good in the name of ULTIMATE SAFETY..

Why don't they spend their time planning the smartest ways to keep our country going in each individual industry and business...

For example. Why couldn't they open all the large stores and businesses - with a limit of a certain number of people in the store at any time and have people wait outside in line until people in the store leave.

Also, large stores with a very large inner volume with high ceilings (like Costco, Target, Dick's etc) open and have their air conditioning on full blast to circulate fresh air> If everyone used masks and gloves there would be no problem and people could lead a more normal life and less unemployment.

WetEV
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:37 am

powersurge wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:42 am
PS - The hell with the "emission war". Think of keeping the country alive.
The emission war is keeping the country alive.

Lower air pollution seems to make the coronavirus less deadly. As does lower smoking rates.
A small increase in long-term exposure to PM2.5 leads to a large increase in the COVID-19 death rate. Despite inherent limitations of to the ecological study design, our results underscore the importance of continuing to enforce existing air pollution regulations to protect human health both during and after the COVID-19 crisis. The data and code are publicly available so our analyses can be updated routinely.
https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/covid-pm


Yet another reason to quit smoking. Cleaner air is better for living things, like you and me.
However, from their published data we can calculate that the smokers were 1.4 times more likely (RR=1.4, 95% CI: 0.98–2.00) to have severe symptoms of COVID-19 and approximately 2.4 times more likely to be admitted to an ICU, need mechanical ventilation or die compared to non-smokers (RR=2.4, 95% CI: 1.43–4.04).
http://www.tobaccoinduceddiseases.org/C ... 4,0,2.html
WetEV
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Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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WetEV
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:38 am

powersurge wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:24 am
And with all of our technology we cannot think of a safe way to cut and pack meat?
Probably.

But it will take time, and a steak might cost $0.01 more.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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GRA
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:13 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:40 pm
What's being harvested in late April other than hay and animal feed?
If crops were being left in the field to rot we would be in trouble, well I wouldn't, at least not for a while.

Why did the trump administration suspend federal truck driver hour limitations for the first time in history if trucks aren't moving?
Some oil refineries I can see being shutdown since most states are seeing a reduction in driving of 40 to 50% Monday through Friday and 60% to 75% reduction on weekends.

Less public transit rolling coal in the city is good.

Which is why California is putting so much emphasis on replacing diesel buses and trucks with ZEVs.

How does air travel smog up the cities?

Seriously? Aircraft don't spend all their time at altitude - they burn a lot of fuel on the ground and while climbing and descending, and as much of the latter two take place below the top of any inversion layer, it adds to the smog concentration. What do you think Jet A is, water? Then there's all the ground servicing vehicles, fuel and catering trucks, a/c tractors etc., all of which are diesel-powered.

The food issue has already been answered. Almost forgot, emissions from trucks, ships and planes in California are apparently all down about 20%. You'll note that the driver hours suspension is supposed to only apply for essential loads, food, medical supplies, soap/hand sanitizer etc. Oh, truckers also tend to check most of the demographic boxes that put them at higher risk from Covid-19: they're typically older and more likely to be overweight/obese, have high blood pressure, respiratory issues/smoke, etc.

Meanwhile, California has refused to suspend its requirement that all trucks being (re-)registered in state meet our truck emissions standards, which means a lot of older trucks lacking the necessary pollution controls can no longer be registered here.
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Oilpan4
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:12 pm

I hear the 2 nearest meat packers here have great benefits packages, but the pay sucks and you will likely get laid off for a week or 2 some time between thanksgiving and new years most years.

Sounds like if they really want clean air then they should close the air ports and force people to buy electric cars.
They have known what causes smog for about 70 years, tried to fix it for around 50, now they know what it takes to eliminate smog and I bet they still won't do it.

We can use the influx of cheap newer tractor trailers out here in new mexico.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

Oilpan4
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:16 pm

powersurge wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:24 am
Also, large stores with a very large inner volume with high ceilings (like Costco, Target, Dick's etc) open and have their air conditioning on full blast to circulate fresh air> If everyone used masks and gloves there would be no problem and people could lead a more normal life and less unemployment.
That can be done very easy, I have done it before.
Most of those roof top package units just need to have a panel removed and they will suck in 80% to 100% fresh air.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

LeftieBiker
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:25 pm

Increasing the air mix rate, even with 80% fresh air, isn't going to solve the problem of droplet aerosol contagion. There need to be exhaust-only blowers running, with intakes near head height.
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:21 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:12 pm

<Snip>

Sounds like if they really want clean air then they should close the air ports and force people to buy electric cars.
They have known what causes smog for about 70 years, tried to fix it for around 50, now they know what it takes to eliminate smog and I bet they still won't do it.

Of course we know how to eliminate smog - stop burning fossil fuels, and wood too FTM - wood fires and use of fireplaces are banned on "Spare the Air" days, which are called any time weather conditions are such that an inversion is likely. The difficulty is doing all that without bringing an industrial civilization to a halt while making the transition, and doing so at a price that can be afforded while maintaining essentially the same standard of living.

We can use the influx of cheap newer tractor trailers out here in new mexico.

Only if your definition of new is "no more recent than 2010", which I believe is the current cut-off date. We _have_ temporarily suspended discussion of the next round of tightening the regs, which will move the date up to a more recent year/ level of required emission controls.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:40 pm

We can use the influx of cheap newer tractor trailers out here in new mexico.

I believe that he's referring to new trucks with old, more polluting engine designs that were banned (?) under Obama.
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