SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: GCC: CARB approves zero-emission airport shuttle rule

Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:18 pm

Nubo wrote: Their shennanigans regarding electric cars weren't personal to me.
What other US regulatory body has done better, or even close ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 5681
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: GCC: CARB approves zero-emission airport shuttle rule

Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:17 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Nubo wrote: Their shennanigans regarding electric cars weren't personal to me.
What other US regulatory body has done better, or even close ?
The merit of the shuttle rule doesn't depend on the answer.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: GCC: CARB approves zero-emission airport shuttle rule

Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:38 am

Nubo wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
Nubo wrote: Their shennanigans regarding electric cars weren't personal to me.
What other US regulatory body has done better, or even close ?
The merit of the shuttle rule doesn't depend on the answer.
In an earlier post you said
When I moved to CA I was forced to hand over $300 because my car (which was mechanically identical in all 50 states) didn't have a "california emissions sticker". Later they helped "kill the electric car". Screw CARB.
You have an axe to grind, and it is blinding you to the obvious: CARB is not perfect by any means but they are head and shoulders above everybody else. As for the airports, every EV in use is a success, and the CARB focus on pollution dense areas not only directly speaks to their mandate, it is also politically astute.

Give this a rest. You opinion has been heard ... and rejected.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 3722
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: GCC: CARB approves zero-emission airport shuttle rule

Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:47 am

Nubo wrote:Silliness. Legislating the inevitable. CARB has too much time on their hands.
Not silly. Look at the exposure side of the equation. It is not just how much, it is where the pollution is released.

A dirty shuttle in the middle of Montana exposes few people to the poisons it puts into the air. And not for long. Few people, far apart. A shuttle from Stanford Airport in Montana to the only hotel in town, the Sundown Motel, if such a thing existed, could be a coal burning steam engine and not have much impact on health.

California airports are crowded with people. The impact of the NOx, PM2.5 released at an airport is higher than the average release in California because there are far more people exposed.

I wish Seatac airport had such a rule.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 5681
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: GCC: CARB approves zero-emission airport shuttle rule

Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:40 am

SageBrush wrote:...CARB is not perfect by any means...
We agree!
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 5681
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: GCC: CARB approves zero-emission airport shuttle rule

Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:47 am

WetEV wrote:
Nubo wrote:Silliness. Legislating the inevitable. CARB has too much time on their hands.
Not silly. Look at the exposure side of the equation. It is not just how much, it is where the pollution is released.

A dirty shuttle in the middle of Montana exposes few people to the poisons it puts into the air. And not for long. Few people, far apart. A shuttle from Stanford Airport in Montana to the only hotel in town, the Sundown Motel, if such a thing existed, could be a coal burning steam engine and not have much impact on health.

California airports are crowded with people. The impact of the NOx, PM2.5 released at an airport is higher than the average release in California because there are far more people exposed.

I wish Seatac airport had such a rule.
Yes airports are crowded with people, and the air in busy CA airports is atrocious from airport activities and tremendous motor traffic. That's why legislating a handful of vans would be like citing me for farting in the Harris Ranch feedlot.
Image
Anyone who has driven CA I-5 through Coalinga knows what I'm talking about ;)
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: GCC: CARB approves zero-emission airport shuttle rule

Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:05 am

CARB bitch-fest:

I wish they would give up the H2 fantasy. Otherwise they are doing a fine job.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 11910
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: GCC: CARB approves zero-emission airport shuttle rule

Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:41 pm

Nubo wrote:
GRA wrote: Do you consider CARB's requirement that drayage trucks at ports not idle but instead use electric power hookups to run their reefers while waiting, while writing regs athat will eventually require drayage trucks to be ZEV, to also be "like pissing in the ocean"?
I don't know enough about "drayage trucks" to answer that question. It'd be nice if the cargo ships weren't emitting their plumes of bunker-oil exhaust in port. THAT is some nasty shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drayage

As for bunker oil in port (I think they may use normal diesel #2 for their gensets, but am not sure), that's why CARB is requiring them to use shore power (or reduce emissions in other ways), and providing the hookups for same:
Shore Power for Ocean-going Vessels
https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/ports/shorepower/shorepower.htm.

Internationally, the use of cleaner, low-sulphur DFM at all times is mandated a few years in the future, but many areas including California already require its use within national waters:
Ocean-Going Vessels - Fuel Rule
https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/ports/marinevess/ogv.htm
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11910
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: GCC: CARB approves zero-emission airport shuttle rule

Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:04 pm

Nubo wrote:
WetEV wrote:
Nubo wrote:Silliness. Legislating the inevitable. CARB has too much time on their hands.
Not silly. Look at the exposure side of the equation. It is not just how much, it is where the pollution is released.

A dirty shuttle in the middle of Montana exposes few people to the poisons it puts into the air. And not for long. Few people, far apart. A shuttle from Stanford Airport in Montana to the only hotel in town, the Sundown Motel, if such a thing existed, could be a coal burning steam engine and not have much impact on health.

California airports are crowded with people. The impact of the NOx, PM2.5 released at an airport is higher than the average release in California because there are far more people exposed.

I wish Seatac airport had such a rule.
Yes airports are crowded with people, and the air in busy CA airports is atrocious from airport activities and tremendous motor traffic. That's why legislating a handful of vans would be like citing me for farting in the Harris Ranch feedlot.
Image
Anyone who has driven CA I-5 through Coalinga knows what I'm talking about ;)
But of course it's not just a handful of "vans", it's also the aircraft as well as the various other ground vehicles (mainly diesel-fueled) that work at or service the airport that CARB is requiring be cleaned up, not to mention all the private cars that visit it (via the ZEV sales mandates). As far as the ground vehicles go, heavy diesel vehicles generate an out-sized amount of DPM, and just like cleaning up the relatively small numbers of ag equipment (which CARB is also requiring), cleaning those up will have an out-sized effect on local air quality.

And I have driven past Harris Ranch and other feedlots, and CARB is moving to regulate them more tightly than they already do:
Dairy and Livestock Working Group
https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/cc/dairy/dairy.htm
Purpose of Dairy/Livestock Working Group

Short-lived climate pollutants (SLCPs) are powerful climate forcers that remain in the atmosphere for shorter periods of time than carbon dioxide but can be tens to thousands of times more potent. Senate Bill 605 (Lara, Chapter 523, Statutes of 2014) and 1383 (Lara, Chapter 395, Statutes of 2016) directed ARB and other agencies to develop and implement strategies to reduce the three main SLCPs: methane, black carbon, and hydrofluorocarbons. Senate Bill 1383 contains detailed requirements for the reduction of methane emissions from landfills and the dairy and livestock sector. To facilitate development of measures to reduce dairy and livestock emissions, SB 1383 requires ARB to work with a broad range of stakeholders to identify and address technical, market, regulatory, and other challenges and barriers to the development of dairy methane emissions reduction projects. In keeping with this requirement, ARB, the California Department of Food and Agriculture, the California Energy Commission, and the California Public Utilities Commission convened a Dairy and Livestock Working Group.
December 3, 2018 - Final Meeting

The Working Group held its final meeting on December 3, 2018. At that meeting, the subgroups presented their final recommendations to the agency principals.
Rulemaking will follow.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11910
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: GCC: CARB approves zero-emission airport shuttle rule

Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:45 pm

GRA wrote:CARB has also been providing funds (forget if it's yet a requirement) to replace school buses with ZEVs in the most polluted districts, and eventually that will apply across the state, as will be the case with buses generally. What CARB's been doing seems to be working pretty well, although much more remains to be done:
See
California Energy Commission awards nearly $70M to replace diesel school buses with electric school buses throughout state
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29824
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Return to “Business / Economy and Politics”