GRA
Posts: 13146
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: General EV sales topic

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:22 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:56 am
GRA wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:45 pm
I've tried it long enough to know it would be constraining for me
So is walking and bicycling. And breathing.

We all make choices. Yours is to pollute, and then spend your life rationalizing them at MNL.

Are you seriously suggesting that walking, biking and using public electrified transit for virtually all of my local travel is more polluting or resource intensive than if I were to use a car, however powered, for all that?

Or that, given the limited number of miles I put on my car annually while I wait for a ZEV that's practical for me, that it makes more sense to buy a car which fails to meet my major requirements, in the certain knowledge that it would have to be replaced in just a few years, with all the energy and pollution entailed in building and eventually disposing of that extra car?

I'm curious, just how many new cars have you bought in the past 18 years? How about in your life?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 13146
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: General EV sales topic

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:24 pm

WetEV wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:32 am
GRA wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:45 pm
WetEV wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:30 pm
No, I get your point. But your point isn't the whole subject.

I've lived on L1 at home.
And now you don't,
And now I do. Or perhaps I should say the LEAF does. About 40 miles per day, 5 days a week, on L1, for almost two years now.

But you're not solely dependent on either the LEAF or L1, correct?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 13146
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: General EV sales topic

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:32 pm

Deleted duplicate post.
Last edited by GRA on Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

WetEV
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Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: General EV sales topic

Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:46 am

GRA wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:24 pm
But you're not solely dependent on either the LEAF or L1, correct?
My son is solely dependent on the LEAF. He has L2 options and an EA station not too far out of his way.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

WetEV
Posts: 4482
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: General EV sales topic

Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:20 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57416829
The big worry for most people thinking about buying an electric car is how to charge the thing.

But the real question you should be asking is how you're going to refuel your petrol or diesel vehicle if you don't go electric.

That's because electric cars are going to send the petrol station business into a death spiral over the next two decades, making electric vehicles the default option for all car owners.

Why? Because charging electric vehicles is going to become much more straightforward than refuelling petrol and diesel cars.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

knightmb
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Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2021
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Location: Franklin, TN

Re: General EV sales topic

Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:30 am

Some of the first ICE vehicles had a special compartment to carry the gas can because of the lack of gas stations. They also advertised as "unlimited" range back then too. But, it still needed gas. That's marketing for you. ;)
2020 Leaf SL Plus - (Manufacture Date March 2020)
2013 Leaf SV (8 faithful years of service before trade in at 75,679 miles)
Timekoin - The World's Most Energy Efficient Encrypted Digital Currency

GRA
Posts: 13146
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: General EV sales topic

Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:06 pm

WetEV wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:46 am
GRA wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:24 pm
But you're not solely dependent on either the LEAF or L1, correct?
My son is solely dependent on the LEAF. He has L2 options and an EA station not too far out of his way.

And that makes a big difference. FTM, given my infrequent usage i.e. my car often sits in my driveway for weeks at a time, L1 would work for me for spontaneous trips IF I had reliable, convenient, reasonably-priced QCs and a BEV with a fast DC charge rate. We're now starting to get the latter, but the former's still a work in progress. The sites sort of near me aren't too inconvenient, but as yet they haven't demonstrated reliability, and their pricing is too high to be competitive, albeit improving.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 13146
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: General EV sales topic

Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:13 pm

knightmb wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:30 am
Some of the first ICE vehicles had a special compartment to carry the gas can because of the lack of gas stations. They also advertised as "unlimited" range back then too. But, it still needed gas. That's marketing for you. ;)

The difference being that carrying an extra 100 miles of gas was a hell of a lot more portable than the same amount of batteries, and refueling took almost no time. Also, there were zero compatibility issues when you did find a place to buy gas - nobody ever said "I wonder if this nozzle is compatible with my fill tube"; even if it weren't, the 'adapter' was a funnel, if necessary made on the spot from any non-porous material.

I look forward to the day when CCS is universal here. Despite my druthers, Tesla's connector obviously won't be.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

knightmb
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2021
Leaf Number: 306291
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: General EV sales topic

Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:02 pm

GRA wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:13 pm
knightmb wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:30 am
Some of the first ICE vehicles had a special compartment to carry the gas can because of the lack of gas stations. They also advertised as "unlimited" range back then too. But, it still needed gas. That's marketing for you. ;)

The difference being that carrying an extra 100 miles of gas was a hell of a lot more portable than the same amount of batteries, and refueling took almost no time. Also, there were zero compatibility issues when you did find a place to buy gas - nobody ever said "I wonder if this nozzle is compatible with my fill tube"; even if it weren't, the 'adapter' was a funnel, if necessary made on the spot from any non-porous material.

I look forward to the day when CCS is universal here. Despite my druthers, Tesla's connector obviously won't be.
I think history has quite the contrary. The best gas mileage for the first cars was under 20 mpg. The composition of these early fuels was unknown and the quality varied greatly as crude oils from different oil fields emerged in different mixtures of hydrocarbons in different ratios. The engine effects produced by abnormal combustion (engine knocking and pre-ignition) due to inferior fuels had not yet been identified, and as a result, there was no rating of gasoline in terms of its resistance to abnormal combustion. We take over a hundred years of improvement for granted now.
2020 Leaf SL Plus - (Manufacture Date March 2020)
2013 Leaf SV (8 faithful years of service before trade in at 75,679 miles)
Timekoin - The World's Most Energy Efficient Encrypted Digital Currency

GRA
Posts: 13146
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: General EV sales topic

Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:09 pm

knightmb wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:02 pm
GRA wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:13 pm
knightmb wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:30 am
Some of the first ICE vehicles had a special compartment to carry the gas can because of the lack of gas stations. They also advertised as "unlimited" range back then too. But, it still needed gas. That's marketing for you. ;)

The difference being that carrying an extra 100 miles of gas was a hell of a lot more portable than the same amount of batteries, and refueling took almost no time. Also, there were zero compatibility issues when you did find a place to buy gas - nobody ever said "I wonder if this nozzle is compatible with my fill tube"; even if it weren't, the 'adapter' was a funnel, if necessary made on the spot from any non-porous material.

I look forward to the day when CCS is universal here. Despite my druthers, Tesla's connector obviously won't be.
I think history has quite the contrary. The best gas mileage for the first cars was under 20 mpg. The composition of these early fuels was unknown and the quality varied greatly as crude oils from different oil fields emerged in different mixtures of hydrocarbons in different ratios. The engine effects produced by abnormal combustion (engine knocking and pre-ignition) due to inferior fuels had not yet been identified, and as a result, there was no rating of gasoline in terms of its resistance to abnormal combustion. We take over a hundred years of improvement for granted now.

There's no question that early gas was variable in quality, even when it wasn't watered down by the seller (which is one of the reasons why pumps with glass reservoirs were developed, so people could see what they were getting, and how much). Ultimately, it was companies like Standard Oil who provided a standardized product to branded stations, along with SAE standards that eliminated most of the variability, plus the usual technical improvements in cars.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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