camasleaf
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Re: GCR: Report: California will need massive grid upgrades for 2035 electric-car push

Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:20 pm

The current model with regional power authority, utility, consumer is getting obsolete. The power from utility will be subscription based, constant power to user. User has local storage for peak. User can sell/buy from neighbours both from his stored and his utility allocation. Virtual power plant. 7 years ago I was working for a regional power authority. They know what is coming, but the utilities are fighting it because they will loose $. But the distributed grid will be more resilient, reduced and predictable transmission loads, more reliable and less likely to cause fires.
2011 SLe 06/17/11 Over 92000 miles 59%SOH
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Randy
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Re: GCR: Report: California will need massive grid upgrades for 2035 electric-car push

Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:40 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:01 am
California needs massive grid upgrade for today, October 1st 2020 they're looking at rolling blackouts. Again.
In that particular example (possible rolling blackouts), it isn't so much that grid upgrades are necessary as much as it is new generation resources are needed. Fossil plants have been retiring and the State is short of generation resources. Diablo Canyon will be retired in a few short years and it is something like 2,200 or 2,300 MW all by itself...

smkettner
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Re: GCR: Report: California will need massive grid upgrades for 2035 electric-car push

Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:35 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:01 am
California needs massive grid upgrade for today, October 1st 2020 they're looking at rolling blackouts. Again.
Um no, Not even close. Not a single curtailment.
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Oilpan4
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Re: GCR: Report: California will need massive grid upgrades for 2035 electric-car push

Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:00 am

I wouldn't exactly be declaring victory since the state already turned off power to tens of thousands of people this year.
They tried to hide it under the guise of "wild fire prevention" last year but no one's buying that anymore.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

Oilpan4
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Re: GCR: Report: California will need massive grid upgrades for 2035 electric-car push

Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:06 am

Randy wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:40 pm
Oilpan4 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:01 am
California needs massive grid upgrade for today, October 1st 2020 they're looking at rolling blackouts. Again.
In that particular example (possible rolling blackouts), it isn't so much that grid upgrades are necessary as much as it is new generation resources are needed. Fossil plants have been retiring and the State is short of generation resources. Diablo Canyon will be retired in a few short years and it is something like 2,200 or 2,300 MW all by itself...
Yes as part of "the upgrade" I would hope that includes adding some capacity.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

smkettner
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Re: GCR: Report: California will need massive grid upgrades for 2035 electric-car push

Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:09 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:00 am
I wouldn't exactly be declaring victory since the state already turned off power to tens of thousands of people this year.
They tried to hide it under the guise of "wild fire prevention" last year but no one's buying that anymore.
Still no on this conspiracy theory. Plenty of capacity. Curtailment during high fire risk is actually a real thing. Maybe you need to revisit the reason for bankruptcy.

The actual supply constrained power outages where caused by a natural gas power plant going off line in the middle of a heat wave resulting in near record demand. They have not repeated since. I actually give California credit for implementing the one hour rolling blackouts vs complete grid shut down that took days to restore a few years back in the north-east.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

Oilpan4
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Re: GCR: Report: California will need massive grid upgrades for 2035 electric-car push

Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:40 am

The last one I remember for the north east was about a year ago and it was because of a storm.
So it's just coincidence that that California turned off the power in 2019 to prevent wild fires for the first time ever, then 2020 they had to implement rolling blackouts due to having to actually pay the cost for political power generation stupidity.
Not buying it.
If 1 power plant going down causes that many people to lose power you have way bigger problems.
The problem with the truth is it likes to get out.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

smkettner
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Re: GCR: Report: California will need massive grid upgrades for 2035 electric-car push

Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:49 am

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they are easier to follow than the truth.
Don't let the boogie man get you.

You can keep an eye on the actual California grid right here:

http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx

California’s electrical grid returned to near-normal operation over the weekend after demand briefly outpaced the supply of power Friday. The unexpected loss of a 470-megawatt power plant and about 1,000 megawatts of wind power amidst a heat wave prompted the California Independent System Operator to declare a Stage 3 Electrical emergency for the first time since 2001. It resulted in rotating outages that affected about 70,000 utility customers.

OC Register published August 16th.

Or just make stuff up.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

Oilpan4
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Re: GCR: Report: California will need massive grid upgrades for 2035 electric-car push

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:06 am

Something is very wrong if one power plant going out cuts power to 70,000 customers.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

GRA
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Re: GCR: Report: California will need massive grid upgrades for 2035 electric-car push

Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:15 pm

GCC:
CAISO, CPUC, and CEC issue preliminary report on causes of August rotating outages in California
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/1 ... caiso.html

The California Independent System Operator (CAISO), California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC), and California Energy Commission (CEC) issued a Preliminary Root Cause Analysis of the August 2020 heat wave and rotating outages in California, finding that resource planning targets have not evolved to keep pace with extreme weather events, and that energy market practices did not perform as intended during stressed conditions.

The analysis also outlines short-term and longer-term actions to mitigate electricity shortages and ensure delivery of clean, reliable, and affordable energy. . . .

finds that there was no single root cause for the rotating outages on August 14 and 15. Instead, there are three broad categories of factors that contributed to the outages:

The extreme heat wave across the western US resulted in the demand for electricity exceeding the existing electricity resource planning targets. The existing resource planning processes are not designed to fully address a heat wave like the one experienced in mid-August.

In transitioning to a reliable, clean and affordable resource mix, resource planning targets have not kept pace to lead to sufficient resources that can be relied upon to meet demand in the early evening hours. This makes balancing demand and supply more challenging. These challenges were amplified by the heat.

Some practices in the day-ahead energy market exacerbated the supply challenges under highly stressed conditions.

The Preliminary Root Cause Analysis report identifies immediate measures to ensure reliable supplies for 2021 and beyond, including:

1. Update the resource and reliability planning targets to better account for heat waves and other extreme events like the ones encountered in both August and September; and a transitioning electricity resource mix to meet the clean energy goals of the state during critical hours of grid need.

2. Ensure that the generation and storage projects that are currently under construction in California are completed by their targeted online dates.

3. Expedite the regulatory and procurement processes to develop additional resources that can be online by 2021. This will most likely focus on resources such as demand response and flexibility. This can complement the resources that are already under construction.

4. Coordinate additional procurement by non-CPUC jurisdictional entities.

5. Enhance CAISO market practices to ensure they accurately reflect the actual balance of supply and demand during stressed operating conditions. . . .
There's a direct link to the report.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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