World Energy Use - There's No Tomorrow - Let's Fix This!

[AndyH]

Grid-Scale battery storage: Lower capital cost than peaking natural gas plants

EoS Energy's zinc-air batteries also projected to provide electricity at $0.12-$0.17 per kWh

http://climatecrocks.com/2013/07/18/bar ... ngbusters/

http://climatecrocks.com/2013/07/20/mor ... batteries/

EoS Energy articles from CleanTechnica:
http://cleantechnica.com/tag/eos/

EoS Energy Storage presentation:
http://www.eosenergystorage.com/wp-cont ... -02-11.pdf

[Reddy]

Just found this interesting tidbit, no wonder the coal & nuclear industry are worried:
"Higher wind generation in the Southwest Power Pool is reducing use of baseload capacity"
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=12831

[DaveEV]

There's a good post on The Oil Drum on the effects of renewable energy development of the last decade or so:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/10227" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting takeaway is that utilities in Germany are getting their profits killed on conventional generation because of all the solar on the grid which has drastically driven down peak electricity market prices.

The good news for renewables in the USA is that PV is expected to really take off in the USA in in the next couple years as the cost of PV electricity gets below grid parity in a wide range of states. Bad news for conventional power plants, which is why you see so many utilities fighting against distributed net-metering.

[Reddy]

Thanks for the post, I'll give it a read. The interesting thing about my previous post, is that it's from EIA.gov, which is usually reports renewables in the least desirable light. And even in this case, one might conclude that they are saying something like "cutting into baseload with a variable resource is not a good idea."

[WetEV]

...which is why you see so many utilities fighting against distributed net-metering.

Too simplistic.

Consider a case where the total load is entirely generated by solar. The utility company will get nothing. Will need to be paying for lines and storage of excess power during the day, and will be supplying power at night. All for free.

[AndyH]

...which is why you see so many utilities fighting against distributed net-metering.

Too simplistic.

Consider a case where the total load is entirely generated by solar. The utility company will get nothing. Will need to be paying for lines and storage of excess power during the day, and will be supplying power at night. All for free.

Wet - the utility companies are still getting paid for the infrastructure - they pay a lower price for solar and sell at a profit. Not a chance in hell that the utility companies 'will get nothing' - they write the rules, after all, and they're not that inept.

[WetEV]

...which is why you see so many utilities fighting against distributed net-metering.

Too simplistic.

Consider a case where the total load is entirely generated by solar. The utility company will get nothing. Will need to be paying for lines and storage of excess power during the day, and will be supplying power at night. All for free.

Wet - the utility companies are still getting paid for the infrastructure - they pay a lower price for solar and sell at a profit. Not a chance in hell that the utility companies 'will get nothing' - they write the rules, after all, and they're not that inept.

So then you agree that net-metering is doomed, long term?

[AndyH]

So then you agree that net-metering is doomed, long term?

{facepalm}

The federal government is the largest owner of electricity generating capacity and owns significant transmission assets in the United States.

http://www.gao.gov/key_issues/federal_o ... ue_summary

[klapauzius]

...which is why you see so many utilities fighting against distributed net-metering.

Too simplistic.

Consider a case where the total load is entirely generated by solar. The utility company will get nothing. Will need to be paying for lines and storage of excess power during the day, and will be supplying power at night. All for free.

Last time I checked my utility bill, there was a base charge, which is the same year around, even though during summer, I produce a daily electricity net surplus. I assume that base charge is meant to cover lines etc?

I am not aware that utilities can store excess power, unless they have a big water reservoir somewhere that they can pump up. Not sure though if that maybe is the norm for US utilities?

[smkettner]

The federal government is the largest owner of electricity generating capacity and owns significant transmission assets in the United States.

http://www.gao.gov/key_issues/federal_o ... ue_summary

This is one area where I think a federal acquisition or take over would be good for the economy.