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LTLFTcomposite
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Does the Leaf appeal to conservatives?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:04 pm

I think it should, but I wonder... am I alone here?
LTL
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evnow
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Re: Does the Leaf appeal to conservatives?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:07 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:I think it should, but I wonder... am I alone here?
According to Nissan 35% chose "national security" as the reason for getting a Leaf. I guess some of them are conservatives ? BTW, there are a lot of environmental conservatives too - just not that many in the US.
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AndyH
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Re: Does the Leaf appeal to conservatives?

Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:05 pm

Does "fiscal conservative / social moderate-to-liberal but definitely not neo-con" count? ;)

As an aside...watched Garbage Warrior a few nights back during which the very 'out there' sustainable housing designer put on a suit to do battle with the New Mexico government. He was coached before addressing the conservative politicians to not use the words 'global warming' or 'climate change' in any sentence - but that energy security and independence from foreign oil were the appropriate 'code words' for this fear-based audience. :D

So yes - I expect the Leaf will appear to conservatives as long as the correct language is used to sell the benefits of EVs.

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Does the Leaf appeal to conservatives?

Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:33 am

I'd like to see the EV subsidy phased out, but at the same time a substantial % of the military budget should be funded by taxes on oil. Not a fan of all this cost shifting.
LTL
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hodad66
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Re: Does the Leaf appeal to conservatives?

Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 am

no subsidy, no purchase for many individuals. Much better to remove the
oil industry subsidies...... Oh yea, and if we had been made to pay for both
of these wars, we would have been out of both of them long ago.
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AndyH
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Re: Does the Leaf appeal to conservatives?

Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:25 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:I'd like to see the EV subsidy phased out, but at the same time a substantial % of the military budget should be funded by taxes on oil. Not a fan of all this cost shifting.
Can't agree on this. I'd like to see more EV incentives and a real push by government to get us moving in a different energy direction. Absolutely cut all the subsidies and breaks given to the oil, coal, and natural gas industry - if they can't make it on their own after 100 years they deserve to fail. Use that 'new found' cash to fund the incentives, expand the power grid, and plant more wind and solar. The military does a lot more than camp in the middle east. I don't think that making a strong oil=military link (in thought or cash flow) is the best precedent to set and/or reinforce.

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redLEAF
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Re: Does the Leaf appeal to conservatives?

Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:17 am

This 'conservative' writer just plain misses the whole point of why Nissan and other mfg's realize that ICE based cars will eventually run out of gas and they all need to start looking and making cars with alternative fuels (of course they say get a diesel at the very end if you need higher mileage) ... hopefully just a fringe opinion who just doesn't get it. I do agree that an 'average' family making $38K (according to the article) is more than likely not a target for these first-gen EV's; but as with anything else the more popular and widespread things get typically the price goes down (anyone remember how expensive the first PC's or LED calculators were?) and 'early adopters' always will pay a higher price -- I think the Volt is too high at $41K (or $45K loaded) as I wouldn't use it as my primary car as well as it has an ICE-based generator on board that I don't need -- if other full EV's come out before the LEAF gets to my area (part of the 36 remaining state group) I'll consider them if they end up in the same price range as the LEAF (doubtful at this point but you never know). I'm sure we'll see many similar debates before either car hits the road --

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Re: Does the Leaf appeal to conservatives?

Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:27 am

Wow. Thanks for the link. This guy really doesn't get it and his article is way off the mark in so many areas. With messengers like this, EVs will never take off. :(

I've noticed folks on this and other forums try to calculate return on investment for an EV. Toss in the price of a used Prius or a Fit or an Aveo, use some average distance traveled per year, toss in today's price of gasoline (at the pump only), and Americans will continue to buy based on 'price' - the same 'skill-set' that brings them to WalMart week after week.

Part of the battle, from a more political position now, is that Conservative politics is closely tied with company owners/leadership while Democrats are more closely tied to labor/workforce. The politicians support the large corporations that support them - and in our world today the petroleum, petrochemical, transportation, and industrial farm industries are so intertwined that anything that's seen to threaten one brings the 'allies' into battle. The conservative/Conservative/petro-etc side of the world is in deep denial of climate change and peak oil as a matter of principle as accepting those proves they are dinosaurs drawing their last gasping breaths.

The only way I can see making a proper return on investment calc for ICE VS. EV is to include the real costs of fuel and emissions - including effects on health (how do we price the miscarriage or cancer rate around refineries?), costs of pollution (GHG at least), cost of subsidies, and yes - military costs to secure both the source and the transport fleet.

To sell EVs and hybrids to the conservative crowd we have to show the full costs of the choices, not just the sticker price. If we can easily explain the true costs, EVs and hybrids become the no-brainer.

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sjfotos
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Re: Does the Leaf appeal to conservatives?

Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:28 am

I usually avoid political discussion on technical forums, but this is related to EV strategy so I will weigh in.

Conservatives, as a group, hate the Leaf. They would like to strangle it in the crib, and quickly. They hate the Volt even more, if that is possible. Any tour through the conservative blogs or the Wall Street Journal on-line will bring you in contact with a snarling horde of anti-EV sentiment.

This is because they hate subsidies and communal action that requires government intervention, unless it is military.

What they neglect to understand is that the current system is itself a beneficiary of many subsidies, they are just less explicit.

Hopefully, the EVs will be able to get off the ground before the subsidies are withdrawn and the critical mass will be built to get us off the oil train.

We will see.
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Jimmydreams
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Re: Does the Leaf appeal to conservatives?

Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:32 am

sjfotos wrote: Conservatives, as a group, hate the Leaf. They would like to strangle it in the crib, and quickly. They hate the Volt even more, if that is possible. Any tour through the conservative blogs or the Wall Street Journal on-line will bring you in contact with a snarling horde of anti-EV sentiment.

This is because they hate subsidies and communal action that requires government intervention, unless it is military.
Aint THAT the truth!! :evil:
sjfotos wrote: What they neglect to understand is that the current system is itself a beneficiary of many subsidies, they are just less explicit.
And they are indirectly the recipients of such. But, hypocrits never seem to notice those little distinctions, do they?
sjfotos wrote: Hopefully, the EVs will be able to get off the ground before the subsidies are withdrawn and the critical mass will be built to get us off the oil train.
+1000
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