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climate control on L1 charging?

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:50 am
by turbo2ltr
One of the known features is that you can pre-heat/cool the cabin using grid power. Anyone know if that would be available when charging with the L1 cord? It would be nice to be able to plug in at work where there isn't an EVSE not so much to charge, but so I can turn on the A/C 20 minutes before lunch so I don't have to get into a 130 deg car.

Re: climate control on L1 charging?

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:14 am
by Jimmydreams
turbo2ltr wrote:One of the known features is that you can pre-heat/cool the cabin using grid power. Anyone know if that would be available when charging with the L1 cord? It would be nice to be able to plug in at work where there isn't an EVSE not so much to charge, but so I can turn on the A/C 20 minutes before lunch so I don't have to get into a 130 deg car.
I haven't seen anything anywhere that indicates you need L2 charging to preheat/cool the car. I'm assuming 110v should work just fine.

110v works on my parents RV to run the A/C. 110v works on my old window a/c and my central a/c unit. I wouldn't expect anything less for a system that heats and cools a space the size of my closet. 8-)

Re: climate control on L1 charging?

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:29 am
by garygid
You might be able to stop charging (if necessary), and do the cooling?

Re: climate control on L1 charging?

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:41 am
by palmermd
I don't remember where I saw it, but it indicated that you can enable the preheating or precooling while plugged in with either 120 or 240, but with the trickle charger you will be working with a net loss of charge from the pack (but still better than waiting until you get to the car). For example (I'm just making this up) if the cooling is using 1500watt and the charger is only supplying 1000watts you will be consuming 500 watts from the pack one the precool is started.

I hope somebody can find the link to confirm this.

Re: climate control on L1 charging?

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:16 am
by wwhitney
palmermd wrote:I don't remember where I saw it, but it indicated that you can enable the preheating or precooling while plugged in with either 120 or 240, but with the trickle charger you will be working with a net loss of charge from the pack (but still better than waiting until you get to the car).
Precooling/preheating only makes sense for battery demand reduction if the battery is at full. Otherwise you are just increasing the total heating/cooling load by extending the time period the heater/cooler has to maintain the temperature difference between outside and in, and once you are underway and have reached your temperature set point, you'd have a higher battery state of charge if you hadn't preheated/precooled.

Cheers, Wayne

Re: climate control on L1 charging?

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:21 am
by evnow
wwhitney wrote:Precooling/preheating only makes sense for battery demand reduction if the battery is at full. Otherwise you are just increasing the total heating/cooling load by extending the time period the heater/cooler has to maintain the temperature difference between outside and in, and once you are underway and have reached your temperature set point, you'd have a higher battery state of charge if you hadn't preheated/precooled.
That is debatable. For one there is the comfort question - obviously better to preheat by the time you get into the car. If you can time it such that it gets pre-heated/cooled just in time - there won't be any wastage. Depending on whether the energy needs to first get into the battery before it gets to the heater/cooler, there may or may not be any efficiency advantages, though.

ps : Remembering my struggles in one cold winter in Chicago, I sure wish there was preheating :shock:

Re: climate control on L1 charging?

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:35 am
by Jimmydreams
Do we know if heating/cooling takes more eneergy than is provided by an L1 charge? I can't imagine that it does.

I would think that during preheating/cooling the car while on L1 charging, you won't be ADDING any energy to your batteries, but I can't imagine that you'd be taking away from your SOC (State Of Charge). How much power does the heater/cooler really use???

ex. L1 charge provides 1000 watts to the battery for charging purposes (made up numbers!)
Heating might take 900 watts, leaving 100 watts (+100) going TO your SOC. (very little charging going on, since most of your energy from L1 is going to the heater.)
Cooling might use 750 watts, leaving 250 (+250) going TO your SOC. (a little more charging, but still not much)
Turn on heating, radio, NAV, fans on high, windshield wipers AND headlights, might use 1500 watts, leaving -500 watts coming FROM your SOC. (now, you're taking charge AWAY from your batteries and decreasing range)

Do we have any hard numbers yet on how many watts L1 provides for charge vs how many watts heating/cooling uses??

Re: climate control on L1 charging?

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:46 am
by palmermd
Jimmydreams wrote:Do we know if heating/cooling takes more eneergy than is provided by an L1 charge? I can't imagine that it does.

I would think that during preheating/cooling the car while on L1 charging, you won't be ADDING any energy to your batteries, but I can't imagine that you'd be taking away from your SOC (State Of Charge). How much power does the heater/cooler really use???

ex. L1 charge provides 1000 watts to the battery for charging purposes (made up numbers!)
Heating might take 900 watts, leaving 100 watts (+100) going TO your SOC. (very little charging going on, since most of your energy from L1 is going to the heater.)
Cooling might use 750 watts, leaving 250 (+250) going TO your SOC. (a little more charging, but still not much)
Turn on heating, radio, NAV, fans on high, windshield wipers AND headlights, might use 1500 watts, leaving -500 watts coming FROM your SOC. (now, you're taking charge AWAY from your batteries and decreasing range)

Do we have any hard numbers yet on how many watts L1 provides for charge vs how many watts heating/cooling uses??
Most EV heaters for a vehicle cabin that size are about 1500 watts. A/C will be less (my guess is closer to 1000 watts), but I have not seen any numbers on the Leaf's System for cooling. For that matter I've not seen specific numbers for the heater either.

edit: this is why I wish there were seat heaters. I would not preheat the car but just turn on the seat heater which would use far less power than the cabin heater.

Re: climate control on L1 charging?

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:00 pm
by gudy
palmermd wrote: edit: this is why I wish there were seat heaters. I would not preheat the car but just turn on the seat heater which would use far less power than the cabin heater.
I thought they had these as well as heated steering wheel ?

Re: climate control on L1 charging?

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:03 pm
by Jimmydreams
I just had a chat with the Nissan people.

I was assured that while on an L1 or L2 charge, neither preheating nor precooling will reduce the range. It will take up to and possibly including 100% of the L1 power to preheat or precool, but your SOC will not be reduced. Just don't count on your SOC increasing while preheating or precooling.

VERY nice to know.