JasonT
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Power switch - positions?

Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:58 pm

I've gone through the manual and a few things seem a little odd, but the biggest seems to be talk about the power switch being in "positions". It almost feels to me like someone took another manual with a standard key (which can go from off, acc, on, start) type positions and tried to cram it into how the Leaf works. Stuff like this:
The Li-ion battery charges the 12-volt battery as necessary when the power switch is in the READY to drive position.
Relay operation noise and vibration at startup and shut-down of the EV (Electric Vehicle) system (power switch placed in the ON and OFF position).
Push the power switch to the OFF position.
The power switch should always be in the LOCK position when working under the hood or inside the vehicle.
Now.. I've been in the Leaf (briefly)... I KNOW it doesn't have positions. I am guessing I am supposed to think the word "state" or "mode" when they say "positions" Section 5 page 8 tries to describe this further but I don't really get it. It seems to be as follows:
  • Without brake pressed, pushing the power button once goes to ACC mode
  • With brake pressed, pushing the power button once goes to Ready mode
  • Without the brake pressed, pushing the power button twice goes to ON mode
  • Lock happens if the doors open (or shut!) while in Off mode
I am not entirely sure what the difference between on and ready are. And although there is a diagram here, I don't understand at all what "Lock" mode is. It seems like it is "off" but.. without the Intelligent Key? I just don't see how those two are different either.

Is it just me? Anyone have a better handle on this?

GroundLoop
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Re: Power switch - positions?

Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:26 am

It's not just you -- I've read that section three times, and it's nearly inscrutable!
I sure hope it's making the car sound much more complicated than it is.

There is ON and READY? The only difference being that READY is "ready to drive" while ON is um, wait what?
I need a flowchart and state diagram.

There's a power switch, and a selector lever, only it's not consistent about calling it a selector lever. It's sometimes a Position switch. Sometimes it's a "shift indicator".

I think this might be a draft manual? Typo on page 5-11, and the constant "EV (Electric Vehicle)" stand out as odd.
If the power switch is placed in the OFF or ACC position for any reason while the shift position is in any position other than the P (Park) position, the power switch cannot be placed in the LOCK position.
I'm totally baffled as to why they didn't just simplify the whole mess. There's a Park position, an electronic parking brake, ON, LOCK, and READY, and the driver shouldn't have to mess with any of it.

Forward, Backward, and Off. Three buttons, Done. Instead:
The selector lever is always in the center position when released. When the power switch is placed in the READY to drive position, the driver needs to confirm that the vehicle is in the P (Park) position.
Given the spring-loaded joystick nature of the "selector lever", I'm not even sure how to parse this:
While the vehicle is stationary, if the shift position is placed in any position other than the P (Park) position when
the power switch is set to OFF, it will automatically switch to the P (Park) position.
The car is OFF. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over?

Fortunately, I take some comfort in knowing that if the controls and modes were that hard to operate, nobody would have gotten a test drive. :)

And now I'm wondering if I just IMAGINED that second Parking Brake release button to the left of the console, or if it was a pre-production feature only?

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garygid
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Re: Power switch - positions?

Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:04 am

Translating last Quote:
If not moving, turning the car OFF will automatically shift into "Park".
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GroundLoop
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Re: Power switch - positions?

Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:26 am

garygid wrote:Translating last Quote:
If not moving, turning the car OFF will automatically shift into "Park".
Well, I guess. In so much as changing the radio station will "automatically switch" the radio station to the previous frequency.

ie, it's Off. It's not doing anything. The joystick is limp. It's not getting out of Park. Right?

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planet4ever
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Re: Power switch - positions?

Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:41 am

Yes, very confusing. I think maybe the key is that PARK is an effect often associated with the shift selector, but not really a selector position. PARK means, does it not, that a pawl is engaged with a gear to prevent the vehicle from moving. I think they may be saying that either moving the selector to the park position or switching the power to OFF state will cause the pawl to engage.

I was also a bit confused by the interactions among the power button (and its states), the shift selector lever (and its effects), and the charging connector. The manual is clear that you can't start charging unless the power is in OFF (or maybe LOCK?) state, but also says you can have the power ON while the battery is being charged. Apparently once charging is proceeding you can change the power state to ON, or presumably ACC, but not to READY, or at least the shift lever won't behave as if it is in READY.

But what if we back into this situation? One would think you could physically plug the power connector in when the power was READY, but wouldn't doing that have to change the power state, or at least the shift lever behavior? Or at least I would hope it would. Or perhaps you can't open the charge port lid in certain power states, though they don't say anything about that. Or maybe opening the charge port lid can change the power state, though again they are mum.
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garygid
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Re: Power switch - positions?

Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:57 am

Car not moving, car not OFF, TURNING the car OFF (the PROCESS of going from non-OFF to OFF, not the STATE of being OFF), "shifts" (causes an action) the car from non-PARK (state or mode) into PARK (state or mode).

The "shifter" modes of PARK, FWD, NEUTRAL, REV, and ECO-FWD are apparently mutually exclusive.

When the car is ON it can be (but might not be) READY (ready to shift, move, and drive) or not.

Apparently OFF LOCKED AUX ON are "system" states that are not quite well enough described.
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2018 Tesla Model 3
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garygid
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Re: Power switch - positions?

Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:07 am

Apparently parts of the car are still powered (by the 12v battery) when the car is OFF:
1. detection of charge connection for Charging, Pre-A/C, Status, etc.
2. CARWINGS reception and processing for commands, etc.
3. sensing RFID for doors, etc.
4. sensing Remote for door lock/unlock, etc.
5. some anti-theft stuff ???
6. other?
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
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JasonT
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Re: Power switch - positions?

Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:14 am

GroundLoop wrote:There is ON and READY? The only difference being that READY is "ready to drive" while ON is um, wait what? I need a flowchart and state diagram.
Exactly! Thank you. I was going a little crazy reading this and hoped I wasn't just missing something basic.
GroundLoop wrote:I think this might be a draft manual? Typo on page 5-11, and the constant "EV (Electric Vehicle)" stand out as odd.
One would hope, but if I was a betting man I would put money on this being the actual manual. I guess Gudy could help us on that one.
GroundLoop wrote:There's a Park position, an electronic parking brake, ON, LOCK, and READY, and the driver shouldn't have to mess with any of it.
I'm not sure this is quite right, or at least the way the manual states it. They have things like this:
The selector lever cannot be moved out of the P (Park) position and into any of the other positions if the power switch is placed in the LOCK, OFF or ACC position or if the key is removed.
In this case I believe they are talking about Park as a state. I am about 95% sure that you can move the 'selector lever" when the car is off. But you can't get it out of Park (state). The manual refers to the modes (Drive, Reverse, Park) always as "positions", but I believe most of the time it is actually referring to a state. This was a little confusing to me but nowhere near as bad as the power switch "positions"
GroundLoop wrote:Given the spring-loaded joystick nature of the "selector lever", I'm not even sure how to parse this:
While the vehicle is stationary, if the shift position is placed in any position other than the P (Park) position when
the power switch is set to OFF, it will automatically switch to the P (Park) position.
I think garygid and planet4ever have this right: when you turn the car off, it automatically goes into the Park state.
GroundLoop wrote:And now I'm wondering if I just IMAGINED that second Parking Brake release button to the left of the console, or if it was a pre-production feature only?
Not sure, but I do not remember this.
planet4ever wrote:One would think you could physically plug the power connector in when the power was READY, but wouldn't doing that have to change the power state, or at least the shift lever behavior? Or at least I would hope it would. Or perhaps you can't open the charge port lid in certain power states
This particular scenario isn't covered in the manual at all, so we can only guess. I do not believe you will be blocked from opening the charge port lid though. I would imagine it is a physical release like you would expect the hood release to work.

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garygid
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Re: Power switch - positions?

Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:07 am

Doesn't the Charge Port Lid release "switch" inside the car operate an electrically-activated release (not an entirely mechanical release)?
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
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2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2018 Tesla Model 3
2014 Tesla S, Model 3 in 2019
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Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
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JasonT
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Re: Power switch - positions?

Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:45 am

garygid wrote:Doesn't the Charge Port Lid release "switch" inside the car operate an electrically-activated release (not an entirely mechanical release)?
That's entirely possible - I just realized I never messed with that release, and assumed based on it being next to the hood release (stupid assumption, I admit)

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