russellv
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Re: CHAdeMO bi-directional

Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:09 pm

Marktm wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:
russellv wrote:Also, I can verify that only MY2013 and newer works with V2H in US/EU markets.
That counts me out.
Is it possible to upgrade firmware/software/CAN protocols so that the 2011/2012 models are CHAdeMO compliant with bi-directional energy flow? If not, is there hardware replacments that can accomplish this?
It's possible in theory, but not in practice. Software needs to be written and likely to be buggy.

greenbrg
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Re: CHAdeMO bi-directional

Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:54 am

https://www.chademo.com/portfolios/nichicon-6kw/

I sent them an email to Nichicon to see how much it costs etc... Will see.

russellv
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Re: CHAdeMO bi-directional

Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:13 pm

A couple of years ago, the Nichicon was around 650,000 yen (~$6000USD)

They had one on display at CES this year making coffee.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar ... k=wG_DUKap

The 3kW Setec one was $2500 so seem to run around $1/watt. Be interested to see if you get a response.

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JeremyW
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Re: CHAdeMO bi-directional

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:17 am

2011/2012 leafs only support charging via the 0.9 spec. 2013+ use 1.0 spec with V2H provisions and can supply power out. There probably exists an update for the 2011/2012s in Japan for the Nissan Leaf2Home unit. I remember reading about needing a firmware update for those cars in order to use it back when it was released. Good luck getting it over here though!

Does the Seatech unit need a 12v supply or otherwise have onboard power? In order to start the V2H session, there needs to be 12v supplied by the unit (along with CAN communications and precharging the HV bus).
Former 2012 SL leasee 6/23/12 - 9/23/15
Former Fit EV leasee.
Now driving Spark EV and Model 3.

russellv
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Re: CHAdeMO bi-directional

Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:48 pm

JeremyW wrote:Does the Seatech unit need a 12v supply or otherwise have onboard power? In order to start the V2H session, there needs to be 12v supplied by the unit (along with CAN communications and precharging the HV bus).
You are correct - it needs external power. I took apart one of the Setec Power units and there is a DC power supply in there that enables the the start of the V2H session.

cwerdna
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Re: CHAdeMO bi-directional

Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:21 am

Marktm wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:51 am
RegGuheert wrote:
russellv wrote:Also, I can verify that only MY2013 and newer works with V2H in US/EU markets.
That counts me out.
Is it possible to upgrade firmware/software/CAN protocols so that the 2011/2012 models are CHAdeMO compliant with bi-directional energy flow? If not, is there hardware replacments that can accomplish this?
JeremyW wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:17 am
2011/2012 leafs only support charging via the 0.9 spec. 2013+ use 1.0 spec with V2H provisions and can supply power out. There probably exists an update for the 2011/2012s in Japan for the Nissan Leaf2Home unit. I remember reading about needing a firmware update for those cars in order to use it back when it was released. Good luck getting it over here though!

Does the Seatech unit need a 12v supply or otherwise have onboard power? In order to start the V2H session, there needs to be 12v supplied by the unit (along with CAN communications and precharging the HV bus).
Funny enough some discussion on a Chevy EV group pointed me to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcw0f1V2BRQ. Thru that, I found https://v2gsolutions.com/ trying to pitch a Setec CHAdeMO box.

Some guy mentioned an Air Force Base study involving Leafs that I'd not known about. Googling for site:.gov air force base leaf nissan leaf grid turned up https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/2018publicati ... 18-025.pdf which I've only skimmed.
LBNL procured 13 previously owned model year 2012 Nissan LEAFs (Table 2).
...
Nissan LEAFs sold in the U.S. have a software block to prevent bi-directional (i.e. battery discharging) capability. Enabling bi-directional capability in the LEAFs purchased with Energy Commission funds for the LAAFB V2G demonstration only required a software upgrade, which was performed by a Nissan technician in the field (this option is not currently available to the public). The software change consisted of upgrades to three systems: 1) lithium battery controller; 2) on-board charger; and 3) vehicle control module. The technicians who visited the Base used re-programming tools to make the upgrades. The process took about one hour per vehicle.

In addition to the changes made to the LEAFs, an additional piece of hardware was needed to enable bi-directional flow - the CHAdeMO connector, which connects the charging station and the vehicle to allow direct charge and discharge of the batteries in the EVs. This demonstration used the CHAdeMO standard version 0.9, which was developed by Nissan and Nichicon, an electrical hardware vendor, to provide a bi-directional connector for the Japanese market.

Once the software upgrade to enable bi-directionality was completed, some issues surfaced that led to delays and limited details shared about the upgrade.
...
Additionally, LBNL learned that with the software upgrade to the EVs, Nissan no longer considered the vehicles standard production models and voided the standard warranty. Under this Energy Commission agreement, LBNL purchased an extended warranty for the vehicles with some exceptions. Any issues related to the software change or discharge operation were no longer covered under the extended warranty. The software upgrades did not affect the drivability, on-road performance, or electrical safety of the LEAFs.

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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

russellv
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Re: CHAdeMO bi-directional

Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:33 am

That's me in the video.
And when I was at Nissan, I led the LA Air Force Base V2G project. The details in that summary are mostly correct. We used MY12 Nissan LEAFs in that project so had to make some modifications that are not required for MY13+.

I'm in the process of getting more units from Setec designed for 120VAC for the US market. If anyone wants one, I'm putting in an order soon. Problem is there are very expensive with the tariffs right now. So far, no one has been as silly as me to spend $4K on one of them.

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Marktm
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Re: CHAdeMO bi-directional

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:52 pm

Russell;
Good show,
Mark
2012 Leaf SL; 46,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

powersurge
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Re: CHAdeMO bi-directional

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:04 am

$4000 for a power inverter?

I cannot see this as mass produced product.

I can go to Harbor Freight and get a $50 1500 watt inverter for my 12 volt battery on the leaf..

may not last for weeks, but days?

russellv
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Re: CHAdeMO bi-directional

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:14 pm

Don't disagree. 12V solution is good cheap solution if you don't need to power much equipment. Like I said, so far I'm on the only idiot I've met willing to pay that much, so not a mass product so far. I think the price can get down to $2000 with volume and no tariffs. Still too much @powersurge?

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