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Re: EV's Too Quiet ?!

Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:30 pm
by palmermd
Hybrids have been on the road for more than 10 years, and there is not one case of a blind pedestrian getting hit by one. I can't find the link right now, but there was a study done. As Gary said, if this is a problem, then there should be a minimum sound level for all vehicles, not just hybrids and EV's.

Re: EV's Too Quiet ?!

Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:41 pm
by TRONZ
Spies wrote:Another concern I have about where all this is going is when some pedestrian does get injured as the result of being hit by an EV or hybrid its not going to be the pedestrian or drivers fault but the fault of the manufacturer or the government for lack of noise makers on older EV and hybrid cars and or not being loud enough noise makers on the ones that have them. Seems like prime lawsuit material to me. I really hope I am wrong about this.
IMHO - That is why you do NOT want a legal mandate forcing older Hybrids to a "New Industry Standard." Lawyers love to use these sorts of phrases to create thresholds of negligence. They should just do the right thing moving forward from 2011. A smart manufacturer would just make the sound like a background app. Make it a purely digital issue. The sound and features (on/off) are just updated wirelessly by Carwings to meet whatever the latest greatest law of the month is. Simple, cost effective and future proof.

Re: EV's Too Quiet ?!

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:27 am
by Yodrak
When completely oblivious people are inconsiderate enough to walk in the center of a parking lot lane I have no reservations about being inconsiderate enough to blow the horn at them.

I agree that people who blow their horn outside someone's house to notify the whole neighborhood of their arrival should have a car bomb wired to the horn circuit.
mwalsh wrote:I've been behind someone walking up the center of a parking lot a few times where it's taken a little blip of the throttle to let them know you're behind them. Of course you could "bip" your horn at them too, but that can give them a bit of a fright if they happen to be completely oblivious.

Re: EV's Too Quiet ?!

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:44 am
by Yodrak
I pretty much agree with you. I myself was recently startled when walking through my company's parking lot when a Prius came up and passed me from behind - I had no idea it was there until the front end had passed me and I saw it with my peripheral vision.

Pretty much all forms of animal life, we humans among them, scan for danger, including car danger, with our ears as well as our eyes. There is a reason why we have 5 senses that we can use for detection - sometimes 1, or 2, or 3, or even 4 are not enough depending on the circumstances. I vote that we keep the redundancy.
TRONZ wrote:Until enough EV's get out on the roads, it is hard to make a meaningful, informed policy. The only data we have so far are Hybrids in parking lots. I will admit to having been stunned at seeing a Prius on the heels of my kids without them even knowing the car was there. We have just all been conditioned to scan for car dangers with our ears and eyes. Our roadways will get quieter and we will adapt to mostly visual scanning over time. Till then I say do what needs to be done to save lives. If one child's life is saved because of these noise devices, then I say it is well worth it.

Re: EV's Too Quiet ?!

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:41 pm
by xRB
Yodrak wrote:I pretty much agree with you. I myself was recently startled when walking through my company's parking lot when a Prius came up and passed me from behind - I had no idea it was there until the front end had passed me and I saw it with my peripheral vision.

Pretty much all forms of animal life, we humans among them, scan for danger, including car danger, with our ears as well as our eyes. There is a reason why we have 5 senses that we can use for detection - sometimes 1, or 2, or 3, or even 4 are not enough depending on the circumstances. I vote that we keep the redundancy.
TRONZ wrote:Until enough EV's get out on the roads, it is hard to make a meaningful, informed policy. The only data we have so far are Hybrids in parking lots. I will admit to having been stunned at seeing a Prius on the heels of my kids without them even knowing the car was there. We have just all been conditioned to scan for car dangers with our ears and eyes. Our roadways will get quieter and we will adapt to mostly visual scanning over time. Till then I say do what needs to be done to save lives. If one child's life is saved because of these noise devices, then I say it is well worth it.
The people who will write the final "EVs must be noisy" regulation are the group that brought us the "beep beep beep" made by trucks backing up --- a loud and obnoxious sound, one that unfortunately you quickly learn to entirely tune out.

Re: EV's Too Quiet ?!

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:19 pm
by Kenneth
I would just like to know a few things about the fake-noise speaker located in the left wheel well. Is it possible to disconnect this or cut a wire? Has any Leaf owner actually done this yet and did it work? Did it cause any problems such as a light coming on? :evil:

Re: EV's Too Quiet ?!

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:21 pm
by JasonT
Kenneth wrote:I would just like to know a few things about the fake-noise speaker located in the left wheel well.
Before you go disabling speakers (which has been mentioned elsewhere, I honestly can't remember what the conclusion was on it), you might want to look at what the clever folks here have come up with at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3296

This way you can still make the noise if desired (I can see some cases where the backup beep might be nice), but by default the car won't make additional noise.

Re: EV's Too Quiet ?!

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:16 pm
by Kenneth
Accessing the wheel well speaker and simply unplugging it sounds doable. I doubt I would do what some Leaf owners have done with those seemingly highly technical "fixes". I'll just have to wait until the Leaf arrives which by the way is tomorrow, rescheduled to next week. Dealer says all 600 Leafs sitting in Long Beach have ;to be reprogrammed for something. I have no idea.

Re: EV's Too Quiet ?!

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:27 am
by Pipcecil
As a noise specialist for roadway noise and mitigation it is a real problem. Its amazing how many roadways are exceeding what is considered an accetable level of vehicular noise. Unfortunately mitigation can't be proposed unless significant work is being done on a roadway (i.e. adding additional lanes of travel). Roadway traffic noise always increases with speed and the faster the acceleration the greater the noise. Areas such as stoplights, toll gantries, etc. are huge spots for noise as well as high speed sections.

Roadway nosie comes from three sources on the car. The tires on the pavement, engines, the smoke stacks from heavy trucks. Obviously with EV's the engine noise is almost non-existant, but the tire noise will still be there. I disagree with adding any additional noise to EV's. We spend so much money to try and reduce noise impacts from roadways I can't fathom why we would try and not do everything to make it worse. Granted a little noise is far less than any ICE engine, but we are adding noise to system that could be quite. Noise mitigation cost millions of dollars a year in sound walls along roadways, we don't need to continue this if possible.

I will conceed that a noise at lower speeds that turns off at higher speeds isn't as great of an inpact as adding a noise all the time to the vehicle, but as many have pointed out, there hasn't been much documentation of blind people getting hit by priuses or other vehicles able to operate on battery alone.

Anyways, if people have specific question on roadway noise impacts and how stuff like that is done, I can answer it all. I do do some airplane and train noise anayses impacts too, but I am siginificantly better at roadway noise.

Re: EV's Too Quiet ?!

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:03 pm
by AndyH
While I certainly like my quite quiet EV, I'm not concerned about the noise makes add-on, because it's only on when the vehicle is very slow.

Only the tire noise will contribute to the high-speed din - for a net reduction compared with any other vehicle in that space at that time.

And the noise, when it is active, will be useful to a pedestrian if there are few vehicles in the intersection, but will be lost in the din of the engines and exhausts of other vehicles.

So no - I think it's a severe over reaction to suggest that the currently optional warning sound will harm the pristine soundscape under any conditions... :roll: