DarkStar
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:06 am
Delivery Date: 25 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 568
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Contact: Website

Re: A peek at the Leaf's Charger

Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:06 am

Ingineer wrote:Nissan already went on public record and stated there will be zero chance of upgrading existing LEAFs to a larger capacity charger if/when they offer it. I personally heard it when the Chief Vehicle Engineer and the rest of the Nissan team was in town a few weeks ago.
I look forward to your "modification" to allow the replacement of the existing charger with an "upgraded" one. :D
Mikiko (2011 Nissan LEAF ETEC) Status:
Reserved: 04/20/10 | Ordered: 10/01/10 | EV Project Blink Installed: 03/22/11 | Delivered: 03/25/11 | VIN: 568

Oregon Electric Vehicle Association | Electric Auto Association

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TimeHorse
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 4:40 am
Delivery Date: 02 Nov 2011

Re: A peek at the Leaf's Charger

Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:03 am

DarkStar wrote:
Ingineer wrote:Nissan already went on public record and stated there will be zero chance of upgrading existing LEAFs to a larger capacity charger if/when they offer it. I personally heard it when the Chief Vehicle Engineer and the rest of the Nissan team was in town a few weeks ago.
I look forward to your "modification" to allow the replacement of the existing charger with an "upgraded" one. :D
+$1,000
RIP CO2 Fre, 27 months, 42,282 mi & 11 bars.
unAmerican Job & Nissan's Rapid Depreciation cost $20,000!
5 hours on the road daily w/o Charge at Work on 100%.

Long Live CO2 Fre, Maxed 2013 SL, 20,000 mi/yr lease.
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rmay635703
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: A peek at the Leaf's Charger

Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:45 pm

Ingineer wrote:Nissan already went on public record and stated there will be zero chance of upgrading existing LEAFs to a larger capacity charger if/when they offer it. I personally heard it when the Chief Vehicle Engineer and the rest of the Nissan team was in town a few weeks ago.

-Phil
Then perhaps a 3rd party should load test the wiring harness over a period of months in a vehicle environment and check to see if there are true legal issues. Far as i know 12guage has always allowed at least 20amps in "home" wiring situations and that is only due to voltage drop and because of non-conforming materials potentially being in the mix. Chassis has always been around 41amps though in auto use 60amps intermittent is permitted. (or at least was) Since the harness is not HOME wiring the chassis codes apply, a 3rd party could offer an upgrade with minimal cost, as i said a few thermostats, a new improved charger, voila.

The leaf wiring is homo-genious, the coating can be looked up and its properties (max temp, conduction, lifespan at a given temperature) are all known. Knowing these variables would allow us to know how many amps for how long the leaf harness could operate safely. The current you can send over a 4 hour period is significantly different than continuous.

And as alluded to elsewhere, even at the home wiring limit of 20 amps a higher voltage capable charger could push out 6.6kw without changing or worrying about anything.

Cheers
Ryan

Volusiano
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: A peek at the Leaf's Charger

Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:41 pm

I would rather see a third party 10KW charger to be put in the front under the hood. Then we won't need to worry about whether the existing wiring harness running to the back of the car is beefy enough or not, because there'd be a different beefy enough (and short enough) wiring harness going from the J1772 port to this new 10KW charger. Then the output of this charger can simply tap on to the CHADdeMO port wiring to deliver the charge to the battery DC style. So any wiring harness coming in or going out of this third party charger will be short and minimal.

Herm
Posts: 3765
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 3:08 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Aug 2012
Location: Timbuktu, Mali

Re: A peek at the Leaf's Charger

Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:06 pm

Volusiano wrote:I would rather see a third party 10KW charger to be put in the front under the hood.
+1000

Get busy Phil!

I guarantee Nissan designed that wire harness just for the 3.3kw charger and nothing more.. copper is too expensive to waste.

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TimeHorse
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 4:40 am
Delivery Date: 02 Nov 2011

Re: A peek at the Leaf's Charger

Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:09 pm

Herm wrote:
Volusiano wrote:I would rather see a third party 10KW charger to be put in the front under the hood. Then we won't need to worry about whether the existing wiring harness running to the back of the car is beefy enough or not, because there'd be a different beefy enough (and short enough) wiring harness going from the J1772 port to this new 10KW charger. Then the output of this charger can simply tap on to the CHADdeMO port wiring to deliver the charge to the battery DC style. So any wiring harness coming in or going out of this third party charger will be short and minimal.
+1000

Get busy Phil!

I guarantee Nissan designed that wire harness just for the 3.3kw charger and nothing more.. copper is too expensive to waste.
+$1,500 if you can put a 20kW charger in there like the just-announced upgrade for the Tesla Model S whose base model is also 10kW but my EVSE, tee hee hee, can indeed do 20kW. :D
Last edited by TimeHorse on Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
RIP CO2 Fre, 27 months, 42,282 mi & 11 bars.
unAmerican Job & Nissan's Rapid Depreciation cost $20,000!
5 hours on the road daily w/o Charge at Work on 100%.

Long Live CO2 Fre, Maxed 2013 SL, 20,000 mi/yr lease.
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EVDRIVER
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Re: A peek at the Leaf's Charger

Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:40 pm

TimeHorse wrote:
Herm wrote:
Volusiano wrote:I would rather see a third party 10KW charger to be put in the front under the hood.
+1000

Get busy Phil!

I guarantee Nissan designed that wire harness just for the 3.3kw charger and nothing more.. copper is too expensive to waste.
+$1,500 if you can put a 20kW charger in there like the just-announced upgrade for the Tesla Model S whose base model is also 10kW but my EVSE, tee hee hee, can indeed do 20kW. :D

That won't get you a 4kw charger. A charger upgrade for the LEAF is very expensive and labor intensive thanks to the thin wire Nissan used. This has been covered extensively.

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TimeHorse
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 4:40 am
Delivery Date: 02 Nov 2011

Re: A peek at the Leaf's Charger

Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:04 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
TimeHorse wrote:
Volusiano wrote:I would rather see a third party 10KW charger to be put in the front under the hood.
+$1,500 if you can put a 20kW charger in there like the just-announced upgrade for the Tesla Model S whose base model is also 10kW but my EVSE, tee hee hee, can indeed do 20kW. :D
That won't get you a 4kw charger. A charger upgrade for the LEAF is very expensive and labor intensive thanks to the thin wire Nissan used. This has been covered extensively.
Context: I was talking about Volusiano's idea of using the existing CHAdeMO harness to run the current to the battery DC from a second rectifier in the bonnet of the cab connected to the J1772 plug. Whatever price this would cost, I'd pay $1500 more since if Tesla can replace a 10kW charger with a 20kW charger for that price and we're all using whatever technique to get the 10kW in, I say I'd pay the add-on and go for 20kW. If it does have to be rewired for 10kW because replacing the existing charger is the only practical solution, then a massive rewiring job would be required for the 10kW upgrade or the 20kW upgrade. Personally, I doubt the holes and bends that the current wiring has to go through would be wide enough for a wire gauge sufficient for 80A sustained at 240VAC but we won't know until we try (or review the detailed car specs).
RIP CO2 Fre, 27 months, 42,282 mi & 11 bars.
unAmerican Job & Nissan's Rapid Depreciation cost $20,000!
5 hours on the road daily w/o Charge at Work on 100%.

Long Live CO2 Fre, Maxed 2013 SL, 20,000 mi/yr lease.
http://aecn.timehorse.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Volusiano
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: A peek at the Leaf's Charger

Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:13 pm

TimeHorse wrote:Context: I was talking about Volusiano's idea of using the existing CHAdeMO harness to run the current to the battery DC from a second rectifier in the bonnet of the cab connected to the J1772 plug.
To be honest, it wasn't even my idea to begin with. I think it might have been Phil's (Ingineer) idea a while back when he was tossing around the idea of installing a third party 10KW charger in the front under the hood.

The beauty of this idea is that:

1) you don't have to rely on the flimsy wiring from the J1772 port to the back of the existing 3.3kw charger if the replacement charger is placed up front. You can just tap on the J1772 port directly with a new harness beefy enough to handle 10KW into the new 3rd party charger. This harness doesn't have to cost a lot of money because it should be short enough.

2) And if the output of this new 3rd party charger can tap on the CHAdeMO wiring already in place up front going to the battery, then no new long beefy harness is necessary to connect to the battery pack either.

3) You can just drop the 3rd party charger in the front under the hood, tap into the J1772 and CHAdeMO, and voila, you have even a better upgrade solution at 10kw than Nissan's 6.6kw solution.

FairwoodRed
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 10:25 am
Location: Fairwood, WA

Re: A peek at the Leaf's Charger

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:16 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
That won't get you a 4kw charger. A charger upgrade for the LEAF is very expensive and labor intensive thanks to the thin wire Nissan used. This has been covered extensively.
Did this extensive prior coverage talk about Current Ways chargers? And did it mention how expensive is expensive?

I haven't seen answers to either question and I also couldn't find any answers by searching.

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