JohnOver
Posts: 144
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Leaf Number: 4232
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains near Hwy 17 & Summit Rd
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Re: Nissan wants Leaf to (be able to) power your house

Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:47 pm

Does anyone know the power capacity of the DC-DC converter that charges the 12V battery? I was thinking of attaching a 12V to 120V inverter on it, but I'm not sure if the DC-DC could support it, long term.

I heard about a guy did this in his Prius one winter when the power was out for a long time and he needed to run his heater. The ran an inverter off the 12 system and left the car on. Whenever the battery got low, the engine would start and recharge it, then shut off. He went through less than half a tank of gas in a week.
2011 LEAF (Silver SL+QC) - 6/24/11 (on 2/3/08 reserved an Aptera 2e #372)
AV EVSE, plus Ingineer's 240V upgrade, and a fist full of adapters
Other cars: '05 Honda Accord Hybrid, '96 Honda Odyssey
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lemketron
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Leaf Number: 1554
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Nissan wants Leaf to (be able to) power your house

Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:43 pm

JohnOver wrote:Does anyone know the power capacity of the DC-DC converter that charges the 12V battery? I was thinking of attaching a 12V to 120V inverter on it, but I'm not sure if the DC-DC could support it, long term.
Not sure, but Nissan does warn you not to draw more than 10A from the lighter plug in the car. That's 120W, which isn't going to power much.
Reserved: 4/20/10, Ordered: 10/27/10, Delivered 5/10/11
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rainnw
Posts: 283
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Location: Seattle

Re: Nissan wants Leaf to (be able to) power your house

Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:17 am

I've powered my house off a gas car for about 8-10 hours using a 700 watt inverter directly connected to the battery. This can barely power a blower for a typical gas furnace. Keep in mind this is 12 volts at almost 60 amps!

There are some pretty hefty fuses connected to the battery. I almost want to say I did see a 100 amp fuse on there (dont quote me, no idea where it goes!) But its really hard to say what kind of rate the battery is charged, if its through this purported fuse or another method. If you were to do this, connect DIRECTLY to the car battery. If the voltage starts dropping to undesirable levels (say 10.5), that means the car couldn't keep up. I am sure the DC-DC converter is fused and current limited, as they probably expect the battery to become a dead short someday, so i wouldn't worry about blowing it.

Now, if i *could* get 700 watts out of the thing with my inverter, i could power just about all of my CFL lighting, the TV, and internet stuff.
Ordered 11/24/2010 (November)
Delivered: 5/28/2011
Red SL-e, ECO package, cargo, splashguards
Commute: 75 miles round trip (60 miles highway, 15 side roads)
miles: 45,000 miles
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mwalsh
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Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Nissan wants Leaf to (be able to) power your house

Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:21 am

rainnw wrote:Yeah, i could just put a bunch of old LEAF's up on blocks 10 years from now to power my house
That's, apparently, pretty much what Nissan has in mind. At least in Japan:
YOKOHAMA, Japan (AP) — Japanese automaker Nissan is testing a super-green way to recharge its Leaf electric vehicle using solar power, part of a broader drive to improve electricity storage systems.

Nissan's Leaf went on sale late last year, but the automaker is looking ahead to about five years time when aging Leaf vehicles may offer alternative business opportunities in using their lithium-ion batteries as a storage place for electricity.

Nissan Motor Corp. acknowledges that, once the Leaf catches on, a flood of used batteries could result as the life span of a battery is longer than an electric vehicle's.

Electricity generation and storage are drawing attention in Japan after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami caused massive blackouts in the country's northeast. A nuclear power plant that went into meltdown, Fukushima Dai-ichi, after backup generators were destroyed by the tsunami, is also renewing fears about a power crunch.

In the new charging system, demonstrated to reporters Monday, electricity is generated through 488 solar cells installed on the roof of the Nissan headquarters building in Yokohama, southwest of Tokyo.

Four batteries from the Leaf had been placed in a box in a cellar-like part of the building, and store the electricity generated from the solar cells, which is enough to fully charge 1,800 Leaf vehicles a year, according to Nissan.

Although interest is growing in renewable energy such as solar and wind power, a major challenge is the storage of electricity, which remains expensive without a breakthrough in battery technology.

Such interest is likely to keep growing in Japan because of fears about the safety of nuclear power. The Hamaoka nuclear plant is being shut down because of such concerns, and more may follow.

Other Japanese automakers, such as Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co., are working on similar projects, such as linking hybrids with solar-equipped homes as part of energy-efficient communities called "smart grids."

Electric vehicles produce no pollution or global-warming gases but need electricity, whose production mostly relies on polluting oil or gas.

Even after a Leaf is ready to be scrapped, its battery is likely to have 80 percent of its capacity. On the plus side, the Leaf with its high-capacity battery can store the equivalent of two days of household electricity use, Nissan said.

"What's important for Nissan is to show solutions through EVs, step by step," said Corporate Vice President Hideaki Watanabe.

A joint venture with Sumitomo Corp. called 4R Energy Corp. plans to offer eletricity storage systems like the one at Nissan headquarters for business and public facilities as a commercial product by 2016.

Nissan also hopes to start selling such storage systems for regular homes by the fiscal year starting in April 2012. It will carry out field tests from December, 4R Energy President Takashi Sakagami said.
http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/*/Artic ... 292bf2c9b3
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tps
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Nissan wants Leaf to (be able to) power your house

Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:47 pm

the life span of a battery is longer than an electric vehicle's.
Just how short is an EV's life. OTOH, how long is the battery's life? I'm thinking that the pack will degrade to the point where it is eating into the car's range (80% ???) but the pack still is useful for other applications. Meanwhile, the energy density of a replacement battery will have doubled, so it makes sense to run the car through at least one battery upgrade. Nissan has said "we want to sell you a new car", but that doesn't mean there can't be a thriving community of older EVs, just as we have with ICE cars.

Anyway, I think we'll see a bunch of "retired" EV packs in say 5 years which can begin to support grid-assist and off-grid applications.

lanceaz
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Leaf Number: 1613
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Re: Nissan wants Leaf to (be able to) power your house

Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:44 pm

One of the problems with using the EV battery to power the house (I assume it would be done at night for those with solar) is that the lithium ion batteries are good for about 3,000 charge/discharge cycles. Using the battery for the car and the home would cut the life of the battery in half to approximately 5 years. You would not be able to use the inverters that are on a grid-tied system as those inverters require the grid AC cycle to synchronize the inverter before the inverter will operate. However, an off-grid inverter would work.

My home uses an average of 58KW per day, so it would be possible to use the EV battery to power the home at night if you could stand the thought of replacing the battery every 5 years instead of 10.
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derkraut
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Leaf Number: 004248
Location: San Diego vicinity

Re: Nissan wants Leaf to (be able to) power your house

Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:57 pm

lanceaz wrote:One of the problems with using the EV battery to power the house (I assume it would be done at night for those with solar) is that the lithium ion batteries are good for about 3,000 charge/discharge cycles. Using the battery for the car and the home would cut the life of the battery in half to approximately 5 years. You would not be able to use the inverters that are on a grid-tied system as those inverters require the grid AC cycle to synchronize the inverter before the inverter will operate. However, an off-grid inverter would work.

My home uses an average of 58KW per day, so it would be possible to use the EV battery to power the home at night if you could stand the thought of replacing the battery every 5 years instead of 10.
58 KW per day? WOWZER! What are you running in there, a bunch of electric welders?

I use an average of 250-275KW per month.
Derkraut
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JPWhite
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Re: Nissan wants Leaf to (be able to) power your house

Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:26 pm

The Leaf has 24kWh of battery on-board, which is a day's worth of power for most homes.
24 KwH / Day, who are they kidding?

I use 55KwH / Day, probably more now I have got a LEAF.

Got energy efficient windows (Thank you Obama for the $1,500)
Got energy efficient A/C unit (Obama refused to pay me another $1,500)
Both purchased in last few years.

Looking forward to Obama paying me $7,500 towards the LEAF purchase. Thanks Tennessee for the $2,500.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
2011 Blue SL-e, 132,400 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)
2018 Model 3 20,000 Miles.

rainnw
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:26 am
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Seattle

Re: Nissan wants Leaf to (be able to) power your house

Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:06 pm

pre-LEAF, we averaged about 15kWh/day during the summer. Now we average around 30kWh/day.
Ordered 11/24/2010 (November)
Delivered: 5/28/2011
Red SL-e, ECO package, cargo, splashguards
Commute: 75 miles round trip (60 miles highway, 15 side roads)
miles: 45,000 miles
Charge daily to 100%, lost 1st bar at 43k

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AndyH
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Re: Nissan wants Leaf to (be able to) power your house

Wed May 23, 2012 2:39 pm

Drag forward to 8:05:

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