Under the Hood Picture

This photo is from Motortrend. It appears that they took it at the test drive of the "production model" which Nissan held recently for the press in Japan.



http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1006_2011_nissan_leaf_japanese_spec_drive/index.html

There seem to be 2 radiator style caps. Why 2? Do the inverter and motor have separate cooling systems?

Second, it sure looks like a lead acid battery in there. I assume that is the "accessory" battery. But why use a lead acid one?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=6989#p6989

It's a lead-acid aux battery but it's thinner than usual.

The charger is likely in the box with (or part of) the inverter. It and the motor are water cooled. It's possible that they have separate cooling systems but we haven't figured that out yet.

AndyH said:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=6989#p6989

It's a lead-acid aux battery but it's thinner than usual.

The charger is likely in the box with (or part of) the inverter. It and the motor are water cooled. It's possible that they have separate cooling systems but we haven't figured that out yet.

Click to expand...

So no likely charger upgrade, that is a huge set up for an 80kw EV! And that 12V battery sure is large for an Ev as well. I hope they don't use a pump for the PS that would be bad but if the car is heavy EPS may not work well.

That's large?! Have you seen the size of the Dolphin in the US Electricar vehicles?

Just because the charger guts might be in the inverter box doesn't mean it's on the same circuit board and doesn't mean it can't/won't be upgradeable. It would be pretty silly in the 21st century to force an upgrade by replacing the entire inverter, wouldn't it?

I count 6 fluids, I think:

Four across the back, L to R:
1. Air Conditioning refrigerant
2. Possibly gear-lubrication oil ??
3. Brake fluid
4. Battery water

And, two in front, L to R:
5. Window Washer fluid
6. Motor & Electronics Coolant

Any better guesses?

garygid said:

I count 6 fluids, I think:

Four across the back, L to R:
1. Air Conditioning refrigerant
2. Possibly gear-lubrication oil ??
3. Brake fluid
4. Battery water

And, two in front, L to R:
5. Window Washer fluid
6. Motor & Electronics Coolant

Any better guesses?

Click to expand...

Gear lubes have been capable of lifetime service since 1988. The Leaf will likely only have a reduction gear unit/differential and will likely only use a couple of quarts of gear lube. There won't be a service point with a cap under the hood.

This was my best guess when we first saw under the hood.

Quixotix said:

This photo is from Motortrend. It appears that they took it at the test drive of the "production model" which Nissan held recently for the press in Japan.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1006_2011_nissan_leaf_japanese_spec_drive/index.html

There seem to be 2 radiator style caps. Why 2? Do the inverter and motor have separate cooling systems?

Second, it sure looks like a lead acid battery in there. I assume that is the "accessory" battery. But why use a lead acid one?

Click to expand...

I was thinkingthe same thing. ???

I thought that we heard that the LEAF's power-assist steering was all-electric, no hydraulics?
Am I mistaken ... AGAIN?

We don't know yet, Gary. We hashed this out in an earlier thread. Some electric power steering is direct and some use an electric pump to pump traditional fluid. Dunno.

In my annotated picture, the bottom cap is very much a pressure cap, though. That and the overflow tube strongly suggest coolant bottle rather than any other fluid. That's the reason for the two guesses.

deetime7767 said:

Quixotix said:

Second, it sure looks like a lead acid battery in there. I assume that is the "accessory" battery. But why use a lead acid one?

Click to expand...

I was thinkingthe same thing. ???

Click to expand...

Because lead-acid is dirt cheap and reliable. There is one Euro car (a specific Porsche?) that uses a small lithium battery as a starter/accessory battery, but these are really expensive.

Check out this commercial LiFePO4 lightweight starter battery - the VPH450:

http://www.voltphreaks.com/

560A hot, 380A cold cranking
9Ah capacity
Suitable for 4-6 cylinder engine
$999.00

Whee! I'll take six! NOT! :lol:

AndyH said:

Because lead-acid is dirt cheap and reliable.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but they could have saved a bit of weight with an AGM battery, as well as the corrosion (yuk!) and maintenance hassle of flooded batteries. Since they're taking a point of pride in the low maintenance of the Leaf, I can't imagine why they wouldn't spec a maintenance-free service battery.

Cost?

I met with these guys last Friday on a different subject. They are building several of these:

http://www.voltronixusa.com/batteries.html

into one of these:

http://www.fluxpwr.com/products/batteries/

The guy I met with said that the Flux Power batteries, with his Voltronix cells, are the ones that have been chosen for the Wheego.

mwalsh said:

I met with these guys last Friday on a different subject. They are building several of these:

http://www.voltronixusa.com/batteries.html

into one of these:

http://www.fluxpwr.com/products/batteries/

The guy I met with said that the Flux Power batteries, with his Voltronix cells, are the ones that have been chosen for the Wheego.

Click to expand...

Really? Fluxpwr is using Thunder Sky cells? Gack!

AndyH said:

Really? Fluxpwr is using Thunder Sky cells? Gack!

Click to expand...

That's bad? Honestly, I don't know anything about these things (and really don't care all that much, to be really blunt). It was just something that came up in discussion when they discovered I was interested in EVs.

mwalsh said:

AndyH said:

Really? Fluxpwr is using Thunder Sky cells? Gack!

Click to expand...

That's bad? Honestly, I don't know anything about these things (and really don't care all that much, to be really blunt). It was just something that came up in discussion when they discovered I was interested in EVs.

Click to expand...

Not bad at all - my motorcycle is running Thunder Sky cells. If I recall, one of the original guys from Aptera started Fluxpower. I thought they would be using higher quality and/or higher performance cells, that's all.

TS are a good 2C (200A from a 100Ah cell) cell and do all right in DIY conversions that use larger cells (~160Ah). By comparison, the cells in the Volt and Leaf are ~10C cells - more capable, lower internal resistance, lower heating during charge and discharge.

Thanks for the links - I'm interested in their BMS!

Andy

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they're using non-hydraulic electric power steering. Also, I believe in the Tesla the inverter functions as the battery charger. It has to act as a charger when regenerative braking is going on, and by its nature it would be beefy enough to handle more than enough charging current from the grid, so why not. Mostly, it's just a matter of software. It saves weight and cost. So I would be surprised if the Nissan Leaf doesn't do it that way too.

Hi John, I look forward to digging thru either the car or the service manuals (I kinda hope the manuals get here quickly - I want to drive the car not tear it apart to explore!)

The motor and inverter are all that's needed to handle both power and regen. The charger might use some common parts but should be a mostly stand-alone system. The US Electricar system, for example, uses the controller to invert power for regen, has a separate charger board, and uses at least some of the motor windings as a power transformer when charging.

Thanks for the power steering info. That makes sense, and fits much better with the underhood picture. The video capture I pulled earlier was from the left and the 'drivers side' coolant bottle was partially hidden. The new picture (thanks again Quixotix!) is from a more direct angle - and it looks like both coolant bottles are exactly the same - same full line, cap, overflow, main-line location, and mounting tab. Hey - I'm good with not doing PS fluid changes!

edit...spelling...

The Leaf and Tesla charger designs are not the same, if they were the Leaf would not have a 3.3 kw charger but something closer to the 18 kw charger potential of the Tesla by design. The charger using the windings in the motor in the Tesla has has nothing to do with the regen. The Tesla's system is the brilliant ACP design and surpasses the Leaf in weight, performance and features. The Leaf has the bulkiest drive I have seen in some time, I would not doubt that the entire ACP motor, inverter, charger, 100A DC/DC and grid-tie weigh less than the Leaf motor alone.

AndyH said:

Gear lubes have been capable of lifetime service since 1988. The Leaf will likely only have a reduction gear unit/differential and will likely only use a couple of quarts of gear lube. There won't be a service point with a cap under the hood.

This was my best guess when we first saw under the hood.

Click to expand...

Any new informations on that? I am curious on how the cooling system works. Are there seperated cooling circuits for inverter, charger, motor and cabin? or are they somehow combined?

Thanks for any information!