metricus
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 1:51 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2019
Leaf Number: 307046
Location: Reading, PA

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Wed May 15, 2019 6:49 pm

cwerdna wrote:Out of curiosity, is this a 40 kWh car or a 62 kWh Leaf Plus?
I found the plus unnecessarily expensive. Having said this the 40 kWh seems a waste of money.

Its a 40kWh.

metricus
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 1:51 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2019
Leaf Number: 307046
Location: Reading, PA

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Wed May 15, 2019 6:53 pm

LeftieBiker wrote: And, of course, Nissan continues to insist that very few North American drivers are complaining about the issue...
They certainly got a mouthful from me! :evil:

metricus
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 1:51 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2019
Leaf Number: 307046
Location: Reading, PA

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Wed May 15, 2019 7:03 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Once you get to the Red - especially in mild ambient temps! - it's clear enough that the pack is hot.
... and, as far as I understand so far, once it passes the very middle you know to expect throttling if you plan to DC charge.

metricus
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 1:51 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2019
Leaf Number: 307046
Location: Reading, PA

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Wed May 15, 2019 7:08 pm

So let's go back to my initial questions:
does anyone have a 2019? does it behave the same? I'd like to understand if my specimen has a problem or i have to just get used to it.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12965
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Wed May 15, 2019 7:25 pm

metricus wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Once you get to the Red - especially in mild ambient temps! - it's clear enough that the pack is hot.
... and, as far as I understand so far, once it passes the very middle you know to expect throttling if you plan to DC charge.
That I can't say. If you can post data on that, please do so.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

lorenfb
Posts: 2241
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Wed May 15, 2019 7:40 pm

metricus wrote:I have leased my second leaf 2 weeks ago. My previous one was a 2016 - 24kwh one.

I was a happy customer until I got my 2019 one. I had never heard of Rapidgate or ever needed to Google anything about my leaf. Took quite a few longer trips with repeated QC and never had an issue to report.

With my 2019 one the first QC I did i found my battery temp gauge all the way up to the first red line.

I see a lot of talk about 2018 overheating. Any similar experience with 2019?

So here is a quick description of my test drive I did yesterday. FYI I live in PA and the temp outside was around 14 Celsius (50s).

I picked my car from the dealership where it stayed overnight to be "checked" and took a trip to Newark Airport and back to dealership and then home. The total trip was around 225 miles. Speeds were turnpike style 65-70.

Started at 83% charge and drove 62 miles to first charging station on NJ turnpike.
It charged at 35kW and I went up to 75% until the EVGo charger shut me down after 30 min.
After this charge the temp gauge was 3/4 up (40 C) and stayed there until next charge.
Next stage was another some 60 miles.
Second charge was at 26 kW and 30 minutes got me from 28% to 64%
Temp gauge went up to 46 C after the charge and remained there during the next stage
The trip back to the dealer was 54 miles
At the dealer the charge was down to 19 kW and took me from 16% to 55% in about 40 mins
After this charge the temp was at first red line (50 C).
I had enough juice to get home but since there is another QC on the way I tried plugging in.
At this point the charge was only 14 kW, the temp gauge was on red and stayed there until I finally got home. I did not charge here for more than a few minutes.

I read a lot about Rapidgate these past days and understand that there is no cooling etc etc. i am also an engineer so you don't need to start with the basics.

1. How does this behavior compare to Rapidgate?
2. Do other 2019 owners experience the same? Is this a car problem or just "normal"?
3. I have started a Nissan ticket. Can I expect anything? Any advice on what to ask for?

Thank you!
My 2019 40 kWh (delivery 4/19) experienced basically a similar increase in temperature, but not as high (122F) as yours.
I only QCed for 30 minutes and the temperature reached 100F via LeafSpy. This was on a fairly cool day where ambient was about 72F.
Based on yours and my results, one can easily imagine what the battery temp would be on a 85-90F degree SoCal day. That's basically
why I'll only do one QC per day if absolutely necessary. I've also noticed that speeds in excess of 60 MPH can quickly heat the battery too,
so my speeds are generally 50-55 MPH. Luckily here in SoCal that's typically the freeway speed with fairly light traffic.

For those concerned about "RapidGate", potentially lower successive charge rates are a fact one needs to adjust to with larger
capacity Leaf batteries not having TMS. Nissan is not going to increase their battery liabilities the result of thermal degradation with
multiple QCs where the battery temps reach problematic levels. That's the reality. My 2013 never reached temps in excess of 95F,
although I typically only QCed for 15-30 minutes. My present 2013 Leaf data are indicated in my signature. Luckily, my 2013 battery
doesn't have a worse SOH.
Last edited by lorenfb on Wed May 15, 2019 8:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

lorenfb
Posts: 2241
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Wed May 15, 2019 7:51 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I'm sure it's a 40kwh Leaf. That degree of throttling of charge rate isn't likely to happen in cool temps with the ePlus.
In theory maybe, but complete reference data using LeafSpy has not been presented on the Plus battery. Some thought that the 40 kWh
battery having more parallel cells (pouches), i.e. for increased capacity, would result in lower battery resistance, thereby developing less
battery heat at higher QCs. That seems to not be the case whether QCing or driving at higher speeds. Given that, one would question
the logical of the Plus' battery being more heat tolerant than the 40 kWh battery.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

cwerdna
Posts: 9664
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Wed May 15, 2019 8:12 pm

lorenfb wrote:My 2013 never reached temps in excess of 95F,
although I typically only QCed for 15-30 minutes. My present 2013 Leaf datas indicated in my signature. Luckily, my 2013 battery
doesn't have a worse SOH.
knightmb at https://web.archive.org/web/20170717073 ... hp?t=22134 I think has a '13 judging by his VIN and some prior posts. He's gotten his battery to least 131 F (55 C).

I'm pretty sure I've reached battery temps over 90 F just due to high ambient temps w/my current '13 Leaf. My current Leaf doesn't even have a CHADeMO inlet.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12965
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Wed May 15, 2019 9:25 pm

lorenfb wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:I'm sure it's a 40kwh Leaf. That degree of throttling of charge rate isn't likely to happen in cool temps with the ePlus.
In theory maybe, but complete reference data using LeafSpy has not been presented on the Plus battery. Some thought that the 40 kWh
battery having more parallel cells (pouches), i.e. for increased capacity, would result in lower battery resistance, thereby developing less
battery heat at higher QCs. That seems to not be the case whether QCing or driving at higher speeds. Given that, one would question
the logical of the Plus' battery being more heat tolerant than the 40 kWh battery.
I never thought that the 40kwh pack would heat any less. The 62kwh pack has the simple advantage of having much more capacity, so with much more chemical "space" available there need not be as much heating per amp of input charge. That isn't to say that the 62kwh pack won't suffer from high ambient heat, from heat produced by hard driving, or even from heat produced by multiple fast charges. It will just take it longer to get hot - and then longer to cool off again.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

lorenfb
Posts: 2241
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Wed May 15, 2019 11:35 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
The 62kwh pack has the simple advantage of having much more capacity, so with much more chemical "space" available there need not be as much heating per amp of input charge. That isn't to say that the 62kwh pack won't suffer from high ambient heat, from heat produced by hard driving, or even from heat produced by multiple fast charges. It will just take it longer to get hot - and then longer to cool off again.
You're making an inference based on a your own personal hypothesis without quantitative data. Using your logic, given that the 40 kWh
Leaf has more capacity than the 24/30 kWh Leafs, it should be more heat tolerant, right? The fact is that the thermal time constant from
ambient to the battery is fairly lengthy as you describe. As opposed to when internal heat is developed via the internal battery resistance
from a high charge rate or from a high motor current as high speeds. If the battery resistance of the Plus (which we don't know) is somewhat less than the 40 kWh Leaf, then yes it can charge at higher rates, but still will have its own "RapidGate" issues as it relates to internal heat generation and sequential QCs.

Again, the Leaf's battery acquires heat at a slow rate from ambient, i.e. a long time constant, but also dissipates its internal heat at a slow
rate too increasing the heat soak effect, which is problematic to battery life. Furthermore, the larger the battery is in physical size 62 vs 40,
the longer is its thermal time constant to ambient. Without TMS, there's nothing that can control the Leaf's battery temperature other than
its charging current and vehicle speed, irrespective of ambient.

Bottom Line: Without field data to corroborate one's hypothesis, one is just guessing about the Plus' battery.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

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