The 62kWh Battery Topic

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There is a section of connecting highway near here where you have a 65MPH road going down a steep hill for almost two miles. I was able to get not just top speed, but more than top speed, from my '86 Civic Si. Not many of those cars have done 125MPH box stock. ;)
 
Question for the board. How bad do we think cool temp DC charging is for the battery?

This morning I charged (still enjoying my nctc for both Leafs) from 39% to 79% during a 1/2 hour charge. The battery temp went from 68F to 85F. It was 38F this morning, so temp starting dropping again as soon as I unplugged, and after the 8 mile freeway drive back home was already down to 83F. This was our SV+.

Do we think that these short sessions hurt the battery more than a long level 2 charge for same charge?
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Question for the board. How bad do we think cool temp DC charging is for the battery?

This morning I charged (still enjoying my nctc for both Leafs) from 39% to 79% during a 1/2 hour charge. The battery temp went from 68F to 85F. It was 38F this morning, so temp starting dropping again as soon as I unplugged, and after the 8 mile freeway drive back home was already down to 83F. This was our SV+.

Do we think that these short sessions hurt the battery more than a long level 2 charge for same charge?
Cool temperature DCQC might be worse than warm temperature DCQC. Issue is Li plating.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Question for the board. How bad do we think cool temp DC charging is for the battery?

This morning I charged (still enjoying my nctc for both Leafs) from 39% to 79% during a 1/2 hour charge. The battery temp went from 68F to 85F. It was 38F this morning, so temp starting dropping again as soon as I unplugged, and after the 8 mile freeway drive back home was already down to 83F. This was our SV+.

Do we think that these short sessions hurt the battery more than a long level 2 charge for same charge?

Hard to say since Nissan isn't very open about their chemistry's characteristics. I venture to say probably not but there is growing evidence that higher SOC is worse no matter how you got there. You are parking the car @ 75% which I think is worse for the long haul.

The biggest reason I got a larger pack is having the ability to do a greater range of experiments and the one I am currently running is centered around leaving SOC below 50% nearly all the time which I have done quite easily over the past few months. Granted, part of it was several canceled events making any trips out of town quite rare.

Like any experiment, the longer it runs the better the data. So we should know something by TG or so?
 
I can make keeping car under 80% work for all non-trip travel. I am not going to sweat whether car is kept under 60% all the time or not.

Our 2013 Leaf even at 11 bars really met most of our car needs, so not worrying to much about the Pluses being sufficient. Boy with the deals you can get now, maybe I should have waited a year on the first car (though i have enjoyed it in that year).

Chargepoint DC stations seem to be moving at warp speed now. The map is filling in quickly.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Question for the board. How bad do we think cool temp DC charging is for the battery?

This morning I charged (still enjoying my nctc for both Leafs) from 39% to 79% during a 1/2 hour charge. The battery temp went from 68F to 85F. It was 38F this morning, so temp starting dropping again as soon as I unplugged, and after the 8 mile freeway drive back home was already down to 83F. This was our SV+.

Do we think that these short sessions hurt the battery more than a long level 2 charge for same charge?
I would not worry at all about the sort of session you had today but as winter progresses the battery will be too cold to take high currents without Li battery plating.

I know you are still in high SoC/high-temp mode but without a TMS a cold battery and DCFC are also a bad combination. You will have to look up the temps where 50 - 70 kW charging (125 - 200 Amps) becomes a problem.

I've said it before, and here it is again: It is penny wise and pound foolish to DCFC just because it is 'free.' Reserve its use for when you are on trips and your battery will thank you.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
I can make keeping car under 80% work for all non-trip travel. I am not going to sweat whether car is kept under 60% all the time or not.

Our 2013 Leaf even at 11 bars really met most of our car needs, so not worrying to much about the Pluses being sufficient. Boy with the deals you can get now, maybe I should have waited a year on the first car (though i have enjoyed it in that year).

Chargepoint DC stations seem to be moving at warp speed now. The map is filling in quickly.

Well, its your comfort zone you need to manage. For me, there are simply too many public charging options around to get into any real trouble no matter what level I choose to maintain.

I guess the real question becomes "how cold is too cold?" I doubt 68º or even anything in the 50's is much of an issue but really clueless here. Bolts throttle charging at very moderate temps like the 50's. Granted OAT and batt temps are generally not similar especially if you park in the garage. Even winter days when my car was gone from home 18 plus hours (too common at my previous job) the batt temps still stayed well above ambient.

When I was first aware of Bolt throttling issues, I kept my car outside overnight (just one time and I felt bad for weeks afterward. The look on her face when I closed the garage door for the night will haunt me forever) and batts hit the mid 40's (overnight low was high teens low 20's) which was only 5-9º lower than normal when left in the garage. So they cool somewhat rapidly to a point then slow way down.

I guess like overheating, its an issue in places but just not here.
 
Yeah only time wi tell with these batteries.

Ok, I didnt pay attention to this last year, but ir looks like before Nissan released the 62 batteries, they were considering a 64kWh battery.

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=46723&flag=1

A few weeks later they tested this one.

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=46724&flag=1

I wonder if it a voltage change or physically a different battery once they knew they had 200 miles in the bag.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Yeah only time wi tell with these batteries.

Ok, I didnt pay attention to this last year, but ir looks like before Nissan released the 62 batteries, they were considering a 64kWh battery.

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=46723&flag=1

A few weeks later they tested this one.

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=46724&flag=1

I wonder if it a voltage change or physically a different battery once they knew they had 200 miles in the bag.

hard to read on phone but didn't see 64 kwh designation anywhere. I did see a recharge event of 68.something kwh though which implies just under 62 kwh usable. That would be "about" 64 kwh pack.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
DC charging in the UX 300e uses CHAdeMO, but Lexus will also sell an adapter for CCS2 fast chargers

https://insideevs.com/reviews/450128/lexus-enter-ev-world-ux-300e/
Europe
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
DC charging in the UX 300e uses CHAdeMO, but Lexus will also sell an adapter for CCS2 fast chargers

https://insideevs.com/reviews/450128/lexus-enter-ev-world-ux-300e/

oh... ok. so nothing here. What a shocker...
 
Hey, if they make one, hopefully it can adapted for the US. That said, Chargepoint and Greenlots are moving very fast with new installs, and all appear to have Chademo.

Hey, I was looking at the epa udds tests, and it doesn't look like they ever tested the S+, rather just provided a few constant changes. I wonder if that is why it might be overperformimg in a relative sense to the SV/SL+.
 
A curious thing has happened to us with the one-year-old Plus: with the older Leaf we had Range Anxiety of the standard variety, never sure whether we could actually go where we wanted without needing to charge (or get stuck by the sideof the road). With the Plus S, we have Charge Anxiety, trying to keep the car within the recommended charge percentage and fiddling with charge rates and times. Probably a side effect of the pandemic and the political climate- not as much driving and plenty to worry about..... at least the charging we can do SOMETHING about.
 
Well put!

And yes, in my 2013 I charged to 100% every night after year one. In year one, we left the 80% setting on, but after they tossed the option in 2014, i (mistakenly) believed it didn't matter. But that ignorance was bliss. Yes, 2 weeks into our 6th year we lost a bar, but that was within expectations for the car when we bought it.

Now I watch both of our Pluses and try very hard to keep cars between 30 and 75% SOC. For a while I used a timer, and it worked. The problem was remembering to turn it off when wanting to charge during the day. Now in extended covid and lock down, while I still have free evgo with NCTC, I like the excuse to go out and charge the car every 5-6 days as we dont go to stores or work anymore. For 1/2 an hour dc charge the battery stays between 5 and 6 bars, so hopefully the bit of heat doesn't hurt the battery too much.

I could go to the other free chargers close, but I feel like I should use the NCTC while I have it for the next 7-8 months.
 
dmacarthur said:
A curious thing has happened to us with the one-year-old Plus: with the older Leaf we had Range Anxiety of the standard variety, never sure whether we could actually go where we wanted without needing to charge (or get stuck by the sideof the road). With the Plus S, we have Charge Anxiety, trying to keep the car within the recommended charge percentage and fiddling with charge rates and times. Probably a side effect of the pandemic and the political climate- not as much driving and plenty to worry about..... at least the charging we can do SOMETHING about.

Hmmm, interesting. I can't say I don't have your concerns but I can say they probably don't bother me nearly as much as they do you? With the range I have, charge management is easy; If planning local driving mostly (tends to be at least 20 but less than 50 miles) double it. If planning to leave town then the distance varies considerably so divide that into two categories;

No public charging; Charge to have at least a 10% buffer (doesn't sound like much but that is about 25 miles)

Charging along the way; No buffer considered but always have at least 2 different charging plans.

I have two different charge timers that are on only a few days a month. I also ran into the inconvenience of turning it off for an opportunity charge and decided it was too much of a hassle. During the work week, I get up, plug in car and it charges until I leave for work ~ 80 minutes later. In Summer, my SOC slowly creeps up during the week. In Winter, it will probably slowly creep down. Right now its holding steady and its cold but rain has not really arrived yet in full force.

My question to you; How far do you drive normally (or least what do you plan for) and what is your target SOC?

Right now I am experimenting keeping my SOC below 50% as much as possible. This should last until the end of the year.
 
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