The 40KWH Battery Topic

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For everyone adding leafspy data about it's battery, IMHO should be added also age of the model (Battery or car). BMS do some calculation basing on age also, not only counting coulombs and resistence.
 
^^

Perhaps related ...

I use LeafSpy in its default config GiDs:Wh
For reasons I don't understand, the remaining energy in the battery and battery capacity is quite a bit different depending on whether I rely on Gids or SoC.

For example,
Yesterday I drove the LEAF down to its low battery warning, and then continued driving. If I recall correctly, the SoC meter's last percentage was 26% before the miles remaining meter changed over to a flashing '9 miles' that did not change. Once I got home I hooked up LeafSpy which showed 26% SoC. Gids was 14% pack voltage 360, and 3.1 kWh remaining. Another screen shows 82% SOH in this '24 kWh' LEAF

I thought I understood the different measurements LeafSpy provides but I obviously have more to learn since I am uncertain how much energy remains until turtle, or for that matter the battery capacity.

uc
 
SageBrush said:
I thought I understood the different measurements LeafSpy provides but I obviously have more to learn since I am uncertain how much energy remains until turtle, or for that matter the battery capacity.

Just from memory, my 2013 would always hit turtle mode at 0.7 kWh remaining, 0.5 kWh remaining for shutdown if you drove it very gentle.

My 2020 will turtle at 1.0 kWh remaining, so will my wife's 2018, 1.0 kWh and her Leaf would also turtle. I've conditioned my battery enough to get shutdown around 0.5 kWh remaining, same for my wife, though it took longer on her Leaf since she doesn't treat the battery well. :?
 
Both 2011 and 2015 would hit low battery warning (Distance to Empty or GOM flashing number of remaining miles) at 49 GIDs and very low battery warning (DTE or GOM change to --) at 24 GIDs (always very consistent). 2019 has more variation and there is a lot more reserve left when low battery warning (DTE or GOM flashing remaining miles), very low battery warning (DTE or GOM change to --), and extremely low battery warning (SOC dash display changes to --%) happen. GIDs at shutdown for 2019 range from 5 to 10, but usually about 8.
 
Thanks guys.

That helps clarify the energy remaining until turtle.
Any idea why the SoC says 26% ? That is way off compared to my 80.5% SoH
Or why 40 Gid is 0.142 ? That would work out to 77.5*(40/0.142) = 21.8 kWh battery capacity -- off by ~ 20%
 
SageBrush said:
^^

Perhaps related ...

I use LeafSpy in its default config GiDs:Wh
For reasons I don't understand, the remaining energy in the battery and battery capacity is quite a bit different depending on whether I rely on Gids or SoC.

For example,
Yesterday I drove the LEAF down to its low battery warning, and then continued driving. If I recall correctly, the SoC meter's last percentage was 26% before the miles remaining meter changed over to a flashing '9 miles' that did not change. Once I got home I hooked up LeafSpy which showed 26% SoC. Gids was 14% pack voltage 360, and 3.1 kWh remaining. Another screen shows 82% SOH in this '24 kWh' LEAF

I thought I understood the different measurements LeafSpy provides but I obviously have more to learn since I am uncertain how much energy remains until turtle, or for that matter the battery capacity.

uc


It would appear SOC is the current state of the battery while GIDs is % from new minus degradation. If we look at new packs, GID is over 100% at full charge.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
It would appear SOC is the current state of the battery
If 3.1 kWh remaining is correct (and I think it is) and if I ignore that 0.5 kWh is anti-brick reserve, then total capacity would be ~ 12.4 kWh based on a displayed SoC by Lspy of 25%. That is most certainly wrong. First, because my SOH is 80%; and second, because I calculate somewhere in the range of 17 kWh battery capacity from charging events*.

* I note the kWh metered from a Chargepoint location, the change in SoC displayed by the car, and presume 10% charging losses
 
LeftieBiker said:
SOC is what LeafSpy thinks the current state of charge is, definitely not the "current state of the battery." Where did you get that???

you misread my statement since "current" is not an electrically defined term.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
LeftieBiker said:
SOC is what LeafSpy thinks the current state of charge is, definitely not the "current state of the battery." Where did you get that???

you misread my statement since "current" is not an electrically defined term.

I see ... you are simply redundant
 
danrjones said:
Here were the stats:

Ahr: 101.09
SOH: 87.57
Hx: 98.02
Odo: 11587

SOC: 97.3
V: 402.76
12 mV
Temps: 61.9 to 57.4f


Update as of this AM:

Ahr: 101.06
SOH: 87.54
Hx: 96.02
Odo: 11946

SOC: 68.7
V: 369.14
23 mV
Temps: 53.8 to 56.8f
 
2019 40kWh Leaf SV
Purchased Jun 2019
Mfg: Mar 2019

6/8/19:
AHr = 114.24
SOH = 98.96%
Hx = 97.66%
Odo = 15 mi
QC = 4
L1/L2 = 2

8/3/19:
AHr = 113.21
SOH = 98.07%
Hx = 106.56%
Odo = 986 mi
QC = 4
L1/L2 = 21

8/10/20:
AHr = 107.53
SOH = 93.15%
Hx = 102.43%
Odo = 7,922 mi
QC = 22
L1/L2 = 147

11/23/2021:
AHr = 104.87
SOH = 90.84%
Hx = 85.39%
Odo = 18,000 mi
QC = 28
L1/L2 = 340
 
So I did a drive to go hiking over the weekend, normally I don't take my Leaf because it just doesn't have the range. But this drive was close enough to do it, and I gathered some data to try and evaluate current degradation.

I charged to full, and I'll put the LeafSpy data below. I used ABRP to estimate the details, and I used a max speed of 70mph (which is what I drove at) and 10% battery degradation in the settings. ABRP has each leg at 32 miles, arriving at the hike location at 70% SOC and then arriving back home at 42% SOC.

Per the Leaf Dash, I arrived at the hike at 71% and then later back home at 43% SOC. The data certainly seems to match fairly closely to ABRP, which would mean my degradation is around 10%. I left the weather settings alone, as there was basically no wind, and I did not use the heater. One thing I've never been quite sure of is whether ABRP battery % is your dash reading or your LeafSpy reading.


Leaf Spy Data:

Start:
Ahr: 101.04
SOH: 87.53
V: 402.63
Hx: 95.88
10 mv
SOC: 97.9

Middle:
Ahr: 101.04
SOH: 87.53
V: 372.67
Hx: 95.95
16 mv
SOC: 72.2


End:
Ahr: 101.04
SOH: 87.53
V: 350.13
Hx: 95.94
16 mv
SOC: 48.2

Some additional data from MyLeaf:
31 Miles / 9.11 kWh / 3.4 mi/kWh
31 Miles / 7.99 kWh / 3.88 mi/kWh
 
danrjones said:
So I did a drive to go hiking over the weekend, normally I don't take my Leaf because it just doesn't have the range. But this drive was close enough to do it, and I gathered some data to try and evaluate current degradation.

I charged to full, and I'll put the LeafSpy data below. I used ABRP to estimate the details, and I used a max speed of 70mph (which is what I drove at) and 10% battery degradation in the settings. ABRP has each leg at 32 miles, arriving at the hike location at 70% SOC and then arriving back home at 42% SOC.

Per the Leaf Dash, I arrived at the hike at 71% and then later back home at 43% SOC. The data certainly seems to match fairly closely to ABRP, which would mean my degradation is around 10%. I left the weather settings alone, as there was basically no wind, and I did not use the heater. One thing I've never been quite sure of is whether ABRP battery % is your dash reading or your LeafSpy reading.


Leaf Spy Data:

Start:
Ahr: 101.04
SOH: 87.53
V: 402.63
Hx: 95.88
10 mv
SOC: 97.9

Middle:
Ahr: 101.04
SOH: 87.53
V: 372.67
Hx: 95.95
16 mv
SOC: 72.2


End:
Ahr: 101.04
SOH: 87.53
V: 350.13
Hx: 95.94
16 mv
SOC: 48.2

Some additional data from MyLeaf:
31 Miles / 9.11 kWh / 3.4 mi/kWh
31 Miles / 7.99 kWh / 3.88 mi/kWh

LEAF Spy all the way!
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
LEAF Spy all the way!

Does ABRP really expect everyone to dig into BMS data to put in their SOC? That would mean that you would never put 100% into the SOC in ABRP. Do the ABRP instructions say that somewhere?

I'll have to re-run the data on ABRP but with the Leafspy readings. I'm thinking that will require a lower degradation value to match the data but I'll have to do it to confirm.

Still have full battery bars despite being close to 13% degraded.
 
danrjones said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
LEAF Spy all the way!

Does ABRP really expect everyone to dig into BMS data to put in their SOC? That would mean that you would never put 100% into the SOC in ABRP. Do the ABRP instructions say that somewhere?

I'll have to re-run the data on ABRP but with the Leafspy readings. I'm thinking that will require a lower degradation value to match the data but I'll have to do it to confirm.

Still have full battery bars despite being close to 13% degraded.

Tried it 3 times and was not even close to happy. Big time pass for me. LEAF Spy does require manual manipulation but rather do that than listen to...well utter BS.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
danrjones said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
LEAF Spy all the way!

Does ABRP really expect everyone to dig into BMS data to put in their SOC? That would mean that you would never put 100% into the SOC in ABRP. Do the ABRP instructions say that somewhere?

I'll have to re-run the data on ABRP but with the Leafspy readings. I'm thinking that will require a lower degradation value to match the data but I'll have to do it to confirm.

Still have full battery bars despite being close to 13% degraded.

Tried it 3 times and was not even close to happy. Big time pass for me. LEAF Spy does require manual manipulation but rather do that than listen to...well utter BS.

Not sure I understand - are you saying ABRP didn't work well for you? Interesting, it has always worked fairly well for me, within 1-2% SOC. I have noticed it is sensitive to wind - or rather, an EV is sensitive to wind, and even a 5 to 10 mph breeze you might not think about (and hence ignore) needs to be put into ABRP to be accurate. The part i like is that ABRP does take into account terrain. We have a lot of terrain around me, so that matters. YMMV?
 
danrjones said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
danrjones said:
Does ABRP really expect everyone to dig into BMS data to put in their SOC? That would mean that you would never put 100% into the SOC in ABRP. Do the ABRP instructions say that somewhere?

I'll have to re-run the data on ABRP but with the Leafspy readings. I'm thinking that will require a lower degradation value to match the data but I'll have to do it to confirm.

Still have full battery bars despite being close to 13% degraded.

Tried it 3 times and was not even close to happy. Big time pass for me. LEAF Spy does require manual manipulation but rather do that than listen to...well utter BS.

Not sure I understand - are you saying ABRP didn't work well for you? Interesting, it has always worked fairly well for me, within 1-2% SOC. I have noticed it is sensitive to wind - or rather, an EV is sensitive to wind, and even a 5 to 10 mph breeze you might not think about (and hence ignore) needs to be put into ABRP to be accurate. The part i like is that ABRP does take into account terrain. We have a lot of terrain around me, so that matters. YMMV?

It was way off on my range estimates, gave less than optimal charging advice. I think it boils down to what you want. Do you want a plug and play option or would you rather have the data to decide for yourself.

It quickly became wasted space on my phone that provided me too little. Not valueless, simply not compelling enough.
 
rogersleaf said:
rogersleaf said:
rogersleaf said:
It's been awhile since posting an update. Now at 24 months and roughly 40,000 miles.
My usage dropped substantially over the Winter due to temporary changes in commuting.

LS stats:
AHr... 104.24
SOH... 90.30%
Hx... 110.65%
SOC... 97.3% and 448 GID (although charged 100% on L2 and shut off on it's own after rebalancing cycle)
403.53v, cells balanced between 4.203-4.205v
odo... 39,968
25 QC / 1008 L2’s
Passing 45,000 miles now... Almost no change since the last reading (SOH actually went up slightly, gained a GID)

LS stats:
AHr... 104.83
SOH... 90.81%
Hx... 105.52%
SOC... 97.0% and 449 GID
403.89v, cells balanced between 4.206-4.209v
odo... 45,159
25 QC / 1124 L2’s
Turning 50,000 miles. Battery looks very stable over the past 10K miles

LS stats:
AHr... 104.51
SOH... 90.53%
Hx... 100.03%
SOC... 98.5% and 455 GID
403.90v, cells balanced between 4.206-4.209v
odo... 50,110
27 QC / 1230 L2’s
Turning 55,000 miles. Slight decline

LS stats:
AHr... 103.38
SOH... 89.55%
Hx... 101.59%
SOC... 98.2% and 449 GID
403.42v, cells balanced between 4.201-4.204v
odo... 54,956
33 QC / 1346 L2’s
 
Latelly I've been running tests with my 2018 Leaf 40. These tests were done to determine real SOH and compare with what LEafspy is reporting. Here it goes:

- Details: 20000km - SOH 91.4%
- Charged to 100% on the dash (leafspy reported 97% and 35.1kwh inside the battery)
- Drove to 0% on the dash for 197km. (leafspy reported 33.1kwh consumed so far + 3.3kwh remaining). Average consumtion on the dash 15.3kwh/100km
- Drove another 10km until turtle mode kicked in (leafspy reported 35.3kwh consumed so far + 1.2kwh remaining.

Here's what I learned:
- Leaf actually charges the cells to true 100%. There is no top buffer.
- Leaf has a bottom "buffer" (if you can call it like that). That buffer is the difference in SOC between what the dash is saying and what the actual SOC is in the battery. From what I can tell, there is about 9% of battery under 0% on the dash.
- Leafspy SOH is the real deal. Here's the math: 40kwh total capacity, 91.4% SOH of that (what Leafspy says) is 36.5kwh. I consumed 35.3kwh and 1.2 was left during turltle mode. Spot on !!!!
- Average consumption is way off. Car reported 15.3 but the reality was more like 16.8. I constantly see about 10% more optimistic consumption. Any idea if it can be corrected, or just my car is giving me these false averages?
 
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