User avatar
CarPortal
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2013
Leaf Number: 405122
Location: Northern California
Contact: Website Facebook Twitter

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:17 pm

I'm searching this site for the exact opposite info as this thread (and will keep looking). Can anyone point me to info about the maximum storage temperature allowed/advised to avoid battery degradation? We have 8 Leafs in stock that we'll be reselling but they are going to sit for a little while. Luckily we have a climate controlled warehouse, but it is very expensive to cool the large space. Outside temps this week are hitting 107F.

We obviously have LeafSpy and I'm about to go over to the warehouse and check battery temps on the cars which have not been driven since they rolled off a car hauler. The cars are all 2013 and 2014's with 12 bars and miles ranging from 16-39K. We purposely bought 12 bar cars because we'd have a tough time selling one with less than 11 bars to a customer (having lived thru the pain of 9 bars in our personal 2013 Leaf).

Note that our storage facility is in the Central Valley of California where temperatures exceed 100F+ in the summer. Our customers are 80 miles to the west in the SF Bay Area where the temps are a beautiful and Leaf friendly 75-85F today.

Again, my primary question is what is the optimal range for Leaf storage so we can try to stay at or near the top end of that range this week without spending hundreds of dollars on cooling the warehouse.

User avatar
CarPortal
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2013
Leaf Number: 405122
Location: Northern California
Contact: Website Facebook Twitter

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:29 pm

I found a thread that covers the topic of storage and will move my question over there. I also need to find info about operating the Leaf during periods of very high temps.

It's crazy, but used Leafs are a popular used car in the Central Valley...mostly because they are dirt cheap. I see at least one 2013+ zipping around daily. We will never sell one to a Customer here based on our bad experience with our 2013. I have not kept up with all the details, but I'm assuming operating even the newer cars with "lizard batteries" in a 100F+ environment will rapidly degrade the battery. Is this is a correct assumption?

GRA
Posts: 11791
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:19 pm

Motarra wrote:I found a thread that covers the topic of storage and will move my question over there. I also need to find info about operating the Leaf during periods of very high temps.

It's crazy, but used Leafs are a popular used car in the Central Valley...mostly because they are dirt cheap. I see at least one 2013+ zipping around daily. We will never sell one to a Customer here based on our bad experience with our 2013. I have not kept up with all the details, but I'm assuming operating even the newer cars with "lizard batteries" in a 100F+ environment will rapidly degrade the battery. Is this is a correct assumption?
That seems to be the case, as the few people who've gotten lizard battery replacements and who monitored their original and new batteries mostly didn't see any significant improvement in hot climates. Personally, I wouldn't consider a BEV in the Central Valley if it didn't have active liquid cooling, and the LEAF doesn't. As for storage temps, below 80F (above freezing - 50s is ideal) and probably more important, no more than 80% State of Charge. IIRR 30-50% SoC is the recommended storage SoC range per Nissan. Be sure to check the wiki, info compiled by people here: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... rm_Storage

and

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... ity_Losses
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
CarPortal
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2013
Leaf Number: 405122
Location: Northern California
Contact: Website Facebook Twitter

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 pm

GRA, Thanks for the link regarding long term storage. Just curious what does "IIRC" stand for in your post?

Does anyone know exactly when the first bar is lost? It obviously cannot be measured by mileage. Does it happen at a specific SOH?

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:12 pm

Motarra wrote:GRA, Thanks for the link regarding long term storage. Just curious what does "IIRC" stand for in your post?
If I Recall Correctly
Does anyone know exactly when the first bar is lost? It obviously cannot be measured by mileage. Does it happen at a specific SOH?
First bar is 15%.
Others are 6.25%.
Brand new was 66.25 Ah.
So first is around 56 Ah.
But there is some variation in the ranges observed.
You can expect loss of the 9th bar (generally speaking) at between 42AHr and 43.5AHr.

But is some delay in bar loss.
Once you have hit the threshold it can be two to six weeks before capacity bar drops.
They drop quicker if battery temps are high.
Above 90F to 100F.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

User avatar
CarPortal
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2013
Leaf Number: 405122
Location: Northern California
Contact: Website Facebook Twitter

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:31 pm

Thanks for those numbers Tim. I found a table with that info posted in another thread here. I've pasted it into our service wiki at Motarra.

Drekonah
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:11 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Dec 2013

Shouldn't I have lost bar 4 by now?

Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:17 pm

AHr: 41.69
SOH: 63%
Hx: 42.27
58,598 miles

I've seen a few threads where people have lost the fourth bar well before my stats. I'm growing very concerned considering I'll hit 60,000 by this weekend.

Reddy
Posts: 1544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Shouldn't I have lost bar 4 by now?

Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:12 pm

Yes, you should have. Most agree it should drop around 42.5 Ahr. DO NOT drive the car beyond 59,999 mi. Save some miles to get to the dealership. Charge to 100% and leave it in the heat, next to a white/aluminum siding building with reflected heat. Good luck.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

Drekonah
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:11 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Dec 2013

Re: Shouldn't I have lost bar 4 by now?

Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:25 pm

I wish I could just stop driving but that may not be an option. Maybe I'll be like that one guy that lost it at 59996.

Drekonah
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:11 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Dec 2013

Re: Shouldn't I have lost bar 4 by now?

Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:41 pm

What should my estimated range be at this point on a full charge according the car's display?

Return to “Batteries & Charging”