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Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:08 pm
by Leafy76
timgross wrote:How are you charging? I just dropped my 4th bar, as soon as I did an L2 charge. Prior to that I was doing QC and an occasional L1 charge. I did just one full L2 charge and it dropped, but I have heard that others dropped a bar after switching to L2 for a couple of weeks. It seems to make the battery reset somehow. My Leaf is a 2013 also and dropped at 42.56 AHr, but I have the bad battery from early 2013. You might have the improved Lizzard battery, which might explain the big difference. I agree with sandeen. I would be very surprised if you didn't drop the 4th bar before July. My suggestion is to just drive it and not look at LSP frequently if you can help it. It will really get inside your head. :(

I don't have access to L2 charging. I don't even have access to QC. My area blows for electric vehicles. Manufacture date of my car is Feb 2013 so I doubt I would have the lizard battery. Isn't it more likely on cars manufactured Mar 2013 and later?

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:00 pm
by cwerdna
Leafy76 wrote: I don't have access to L2 charging. I don't even have access to QC. My area blows for electric vehicles. Manufacture date of my car is Feb 2013 so I doubt I would have the lizard battery. Isn't it more likely on cars manufactured Mar 2013 and later?
Lizard battery did NOT officially exist until model year 2015. Search http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=17168 for lizard.

Nissan had alluded to a "hot" battery in testing stages at various events and communications. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... ng#p320754 was mentioned in late Aug 2013.
BBrockman wrote: Currently, we have almost completed testing of a new battery chemistry intended to substantially slow capacity loss in extreme heat. During constant testing at battery temperatures of 45 C/113 F, the new battery chemistry is performing similar to the manner that the current battery performs in temperate areas like San Francisco or Seattle.

We expect that, if testing continues on its current path, we will have this new chemistry ready to implement by mid-2014, and it will be compatible with 2011-2013 model vehicles. For those owners who have already had a replacement due to heat-related capacity loss, we intend to provide a transferable coupon for a battery with the updated chemistry to use within five years.
Presumably, the result of that got rolled out as the '15 lizard battery.

It does seem that Leafs built 4/2013 and later but prior to model year 2015 have better batteries than ones before, but they're definitely NOT lizard batteries.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 95#p473995 was what happened to a 5/2013 built Leaf in Phoenix. (Mine is also 5/2013 built but I live in a cooler climate but nowhere near as mild as the PNW. I lost my 1st capacity bar a few weeks ago at a bit past 49.5K miles: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 15#p511915. My SOH has actually climbed to 85% but Hx is fluctuating. Was last at 82.xx%.)

Compare to a Phoenician w/lizard battery: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 11#p507283.

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:00 pm
by LeftieBiker
Lizard battery did NOT officially exist until model year 2015.
They are referring to the 4/2013-2014 improved pack, which until now has been nameless. To remedy that, I've started calling this pack the "Wolf pack." Great, tough pack, unless it gets really Hot.

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:31 pm
by timgross
Thanks for the clarification on the Lizzard vs "Wolfpack" battery. I did not know that. My suggestion for Leafy76 is to try to find a Nissan dealer that has an L2 charger if you want to drop the 4th bar sooner. If you aren't in a hurry, you have plenty of time left.

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:02 pm
by bigbearballs
Any 2014 data points? I've lost two bars and at ahr=49.47 and hx=63.64. My warranty is up in 4/19 and I have 49265 miles on the car. I think I'm screwed but I do live in Texas.

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:57 am
by baustin
bigbearballs wrote:Any 2014 data points? I've lost two bars and at ahr=49.47 and hx=63.64. My warranty is up in 4/19 and I have 49265 miles on the car. I think I'm screwed but I do live in Texas.
There is a possibility of getting it to drop before 4/19, due to the climate you are in, but you would have to abuse the battery (and keep the mileage under 60,000). It would require a long, hot summer of aggressive driving, 100% charging in the heat, and sitting at full charge on pavement or concrete. There is also the gamble that the battery would deteriorate, but just not enough in time to get that warranty replacement, and you would suffer the range reduction with no payoff.

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:06 am
by EVadvocate
When I bought my LEAF in 2011, I fell in love with it. Great pickup, almost zero maintenance. Unsuitable for long trips, but great for errands around town. And with a 5-year warranty on the battery maintaining "approximately 70% of battery capacity", I should be covered, right?

Wrong.

As my car approached the 5-year expiration date, with 22,000 miles on the odometer, the car was charging to approx. 62 miles - well short of 70% of its original 102-mile range. Disappointed, I brought the car in to have the battery replaced. At the dealer (Glendale Nissan) I was told, "OK, we need to update the car's operating system anyway. Leave it here, we'll check it out."

When I went back to pick it up, the service consultant told me, "There are still 9 bars on the dash displaying battery capacity. Unfortunately, you don't qualify for replacement." But worse: after a full charge the available distance displayed on the dashboard had magically increased to 72 miles. Either Nissan Service had enhanced my car's battery capacity, or the software "update" had tweaked the car's operating system, Volkswagen-style, to show more range than was actually available!

After purchasing the Leaf Spy app (which plugs directly into the car's maintenance port) I discovered the car had 64.8% of battery capacity remaining (182 GIDs). So I went back to Nissan Service and showed them their bar display was wrong - remaining capacity was well below 70% - and demanded the new $5,500 battery to which I was entitled. "But it's not below 9 bars," I was told. So I demanded to talk to the Service Manager. "But it's not below 9 bars," he said.

In two consecutive calls to Nissan America Customer Service I tried to explain. "Because your 'bars' don't correspond to any physical property they're useless to consumers for evaluation purposes," I said. "I purchased the car based on the battery's capacity not falling 'below approximately 70%' of original capacity." Both times I was told, "But it's not below 9 bars."

Despite my original enthusiasm for the LEAF (and reading comments of others with the same experience), I'm entirely turned off by Nissan's obvious deception and refusal to abide by the terms of their warranty. I would never consider buying another LEAF, and encourage others to look at the numerous other options available. :(

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:18 am
by smkettner
Yes I was in the same situation. Unfortunately I did not know the real value of the $1,000 L3 option was to roast the original battery into the warranty zone and passed on the option.

The Nissan replacement batteries seemed to be better but recently more reports of short battery life. No way would I go back to Nissan.

RAV4-EV has been perfect as far as range and battery longevity. However the integration with Tesla drivetrain seems to be a bit quirky and prone to failure. Parts are way too expensive out of warranty. Basic heater fix is close to $3,000. I will get by with the seat heaters thank you.

This leaves a sore spot for both Toyota and Tesla for me. Besides that Tesla is a bit too much tech and not enough basic vehicle for me. Right now I expect to have an I-Pace within the next year.

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:24 am
by Stanton
EVadvocate wrote: After purchasing the Leaf Spy app (which plugs directly into the car's maintenance port) I discovered the car had 64.8% of battery capacity remaining (182 GIDs). So I went back to Nissan Service and showed them their bar display was wrong - remaining capacity was well below 70% - and demanded the new $5,500 battery to which I was entitled. "But it's not below 9 bars," I was told. So I demanded to talk to the Service Manager. "But it's not below 9 bars," he said.
(
There is a reason the title of this thread is How long 'til the 4th bar drops and not How long 'til I'm below 70%.
The bars always have been...and always will be...the metric for warranty battery replacement per the legal settlement.

Re: How long 'til 4th bar drops?

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:15 pm
by EVadvocate
Stanton wrote:There is a reason the title of this thread is How long 'til the 4th bar drops and not How long 'til I'm below 70%.
The bars always have been...and always will be...the metric for warranty battery replacement per the legal settlement.
I wasn't party to any legal settlement, so I have no idea to what you're referring. Frankly, I don't give a * about "when the fourth bar drops," nor does anyone except Nissan.

"Bars" are meaningless to consumers. Bars are arbitrary, bars mean whatever Nissan's programmers want them to mean. And I have every indication Nissan has represented them to potential buyers, and to owners, to be an accurate indication of "remaining battery capacity". They aren't, and I have proof. When a company refuses to honor a warranty commitment based on their own misrepresentation, deliberate or not, that would constitute fraud.

I built my own electric car in 2007, Stanton. I have a good understanding of the electrochemical characteristics of lithium-ion cells and their cycle durability, so this "bar" nonsense is insulting. Though it's not worth it to me to file a class action lawsuit for a $5,500 battery, I have and will continue to warn members of the EV community not to expect Nissan to honor battery warranty commitments.