2012 SL with range collapse

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BiggieJohn

Active member
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
35
I just got a 2012 SL with 37,205 miles. shows 10 bars SOH and about 65 miles on a full charge.
But there is a SERIOUS problem.
The ride home from CarMax was 18 miles, I barely made it, with the very low battery warning and --- showing for range.
Charged it up overnight, and drove around my neighborhood (20-45mph) and only got about 10 miles before low battery.
I repeated the charge/drive cycle several times and the best I get is about 10 miles before low battery warning.
I have owned several hybrids over the past 5 years, and I'm averaging 3.5-4 miles/Kwh, so it's not a leadfoot problem

I randomly get "motor power reduced" / Turtle/ yellow car with the ! on a full charge when I start the car. Sometimes, turning it off and back on a few times will clear it. There was a problem with the 12V battery not holding a charge very well, so I replaced that, but I still get the yellow ! and motor power reduced warnings sometimes.

From low battery, it only takes about 1 to 1.5 hrs to charge to full at L2, something doesnt add up here.
Longest charge time I've seen so far was 2.5hrs when I ran it all the way down to turtle (wouldnt start up anymore, red battery warning)

Sounds like a seriously degraded cell or even several. I dont have a dongle for leafspy yet, so I cant check the cell voltages
I plan to call Nissan in the morning and get it to a nearby dealer and see if they can run some diagnostics.
Any tips for dealing with a dealer ? I'm in Austin, TX, will be taking it to Round Rock Nissan (it's the only one I can get to without having ti towed further) I'm ready for a fight since it shows 10 bars SOH, but the range is so abysmal there has to be something seriously wrong.

Update 3/30/16 - Just talked to the dealer, they are working with Nissan on full warranty pack replacement.
I havent heard specifics yet on what the exact issue is, but at least they acknowledge a serious pack issue and are working on warranty replacement. I got a OBD dongle in the meantime, if I get the car back while they are ordering a new pack, I will definitely post screenshots of the cell status from leafspy.
 
well, guess I'm not getting a whole new pack now, just cell replacement. Dealer said new cells should be here in a few days.
I'll check with the case manager tomorrow to confirm everything and see if I can get more details.
With 37K miles, and end of warranty being near the end of june 2017, I should have plenty of time to run ti hard and DCQC as often as I can :)
 
BiggieJohn said:
well, guess I'm not getting a whole new pack now, just cell replacement. Dealer said new cells should be here in a few days.
I'll check with the case manager tomorrow to confirm everything and see if I can get more details.
With 37K miles, and end of warranty being near the end of june 2017, I should have plenty of time to run ti hard and DCQC as often as I can :)

Cell replacement Eh? We don't hear a lot of those... I wonder if their business practice is starting to change. I realize you have a 10 bar car with a malfunction and not an 8 bar degraded but I find that interesting. Hopefully they get you to "like new" or you qualify before time runs out.
 
Evoforce said:
BiggieJohn said:
well, guess I'm not getting a whole new pack now, just cell replacement. Dealer said new cells should be here in a few days.
I'll check with the case manager tomorrow to confirm everything and see if I can get more details.
With 37K miles, and end of warranty being near the end of june 2017, I should have plenty of time to run ti hard and DCQC as often as I can :)

Cell replacement Eh? We don't hear a lot of those... I wonder if their business practice is starting to change. I realize you have a 10 bar car with a malfunction and not an 8 bar degraded but I find that interesting. Hopefully they get you to "like new" or you qualify before time runs out.

Finally got a call back from the dealer working on my Leaf. They got the new cell, tore apart the pack and are going thru the replacement procedure. Apparently, the process involves quite a few full charge/discharge cycles, (I assume to balance the brand new cell with the aged ones. Hopefully it will be ready to pick up on monday 4/11/16. The service manager said this is the first time they have ever replaced individual cells, in the past Nissan has always just shipped them a complete pack.
 
why didn't you just return the car to CarMax the next day after purchase?How is round rock Nissan?that is where I leased my 2012 from.not impressed with counter service personel.Never have had a failure on the leaf so the car itself outshines them.
the other thing just to get them after my 1st terrible free battery check .the next time I'm ready for them.so,i go in ok I'm here for the battery check .What is needed at this point.he gives me a list of about $400 of non-needed stuff that was required. including the FREE battery check Nissan gives you.So, he plays real dumb and confused .Off course I pull up my email from Nissan .then I explain non of this is recommended OR required service for the car.Then to sturr things up (after pick up on last free check they hand me a bill ).I state I want in writing there will be no bill on my pick up===BOOM I hit a hot spot.the more I think back --ya ,wouldn't use or recommend them to anyone I liked.
 
Holy Shiznit you have my old leaf!!! White 2012, does it still have Juke wheels?! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Yes, it had a low cell pair that I tried to get Nissan to replace. They refused, despite it meeting the requirements of the low voltage cell pair (CVLI) test. I'll see if I can dig through my post history on this. It sounds like it finally fell off a cliff (er.. well.. fell further). I was struggling to get 50 miles out of the car before I stopped driving the car in July 2015, as I picked up a off-lease Honda Fit EV. I returned the car that September.

That car taught me a tremendous amount about electric vehicles. Treat her well. :)

Sorry for the wear and tear. ;)

edit: Here's the thread where I went to a dealer for it... in November of 2014

2PnVJ6Wl.png
 
wonder how or why it got too Austin texas?why did you opt out of the lawsuite?Wonder if new owner is still opted out?
 
JeremyW said:
Holy Shiznit you have my old leaf!!! White 2012, does it still have Juke wheels?! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Yes, it had a low cell pair that I tried to get Nissan to replace. They refused, despite it meeting the requirements of the low voltage cell pair (CVLI) test. I'll see if I can dig through my post history on this. It sounds like it finally fell off a cliff (er.. well.. fell further). I was struggling to get 50 miles out of the car before I stopped driving the car in July 2015, as I picked up a off-lease Honda Fit EV. I returned the car that September.

That car taught me a tremendous amount about electric vehicles. Treat her well. :)

Sorry for the wear and tear. ;)

edit: Here's the thread where I went to a dealer for it... in November of 2014

2PnVJ6Wl.png


LOL, yep that's it, same VIN. well, at least now I have some history.

looks like it was sold at auction in Washington state sometime in October '15, not sure what happened to it for 4 months, might explain the 12v battery issues.
 
epic said:
wonder how or why it got too Austin texas?why did you opt out of the lawsuite?Wonder if new owner is still opted out?

Looks like ti was sold at auction and carmax picked it up. How it got to Austin, TX, who knows

When I took it in, the dealer said it was under warranty, didnt mention anything about being opted out of the warranty, and neither did the people at 1-877-NogasEV

I will have to read thru the service notes when I get it back on Monday
 
epic said:
why didn't you just return the car to CarMax the next day after purchase?How is round rock Nissan?that is where I leased my 2012 from.not impressed with counter service personel.Never have had a failure on the leaf so the car itself outshines them.
the other thing just to get them after my 1st terrible free battery check .the next time I'm ready for them.so,i go in ok I'm here for the battery check .What is needed at this point.he gives me a list of about $400 of non-needed stuff that was required. including the FREE battery check Nissan gives you.So, he plays real dumb and confused .Off course I pull up my email from Nissan .then I explain non of this is recommended OR required service for the car.Then to sturr things up (after pick up on last free check they hand me a bill ).I state I want in writing there will be no bill on my pick up===BOOM I hit a hot spot.the more I think back --ya ,wouldn't use or recommend them to anyone I liked.

I was willing to deal with Nissan since it was still under 60,000 miles,

I'm not impressed with Round Rock Nissan, but it was the only choice I had given the range issues.
In the future I will probably take it somewhere else.
 
You're having 12 V battery issues too? I didn't keep it on a tender when I wasn't driving it, but I did add water at some point and charge it before I dropped it off. Consider replacing it if it's giving you trouble. The leaf doesn't take good care of it on it's own (read up on it here).

The first summer it was in Sacramento, the rest in Southern California. With the Texas heat you should still qualify... hopefully... even with the new cell.

If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay? My pay off residual was $17,500. :lol:

Oh btw you have 3M crystalline tint which is awesome and there is all the connections (battery, switched power, and audio) for a subwoofer still tucked in the trunk under the plastic hump where the charger is. If it still has the Juke wheels, it should have MXM tires on it which are awesome and a lot of fun. I was super busy at work during the summer that I didn't drive the car and it was cheaper for me to work extra overtime than try to find a set of original wheels and tires (burned through the first tires fast and sold the first set of wheels due to no space). The standard EVSE is upgraded to 16 amps (non-adjustable) and should hopefully be still with the car.
 
JeremyW said:
You're having 12 V battery issues too? I didn't keep it on a tender when I wasn't driving it, but I did add water at some point and charge it before I dropped it off. Consider replacing it if it's giving you trouble. The leaf doesn't take good care of it on it's own (read up on it here).

I replaced the battery the first day I had the car, wasnt holding a charge, random lights on the dash when I powered it up.
Battery was dropping to 12.4V with just the cabin lights on, so it was time for a new one. I still need to check with carmax on reimbursement for that, they should have checked the 12V battery.

JeremyW said:
The first summer it was in Sacramento, the rest in Southern California. With the Texas heat you should still qualify... hopefully... even with the new cell.

If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay? My pay off residual was $17,500. :lol:

$9,998 with 10 bars I thought it was a decent price, will see how many miles I can get on a full charge

JeremyW said:
Oh btw you have 3M crystalline tint which is awesome and there is all the connections (battery, switched power, and audio) for a subwoofer still tucked in the trunk under the plastic hump where the charger is. If it still has the Juke wheels, it should have MXM tires on it which are awesome and a lot of fun. I was super busy at work during the summer that I didn't drive the car and it was cheaper for me to work extra overtime than try to find a set of original wheels and tires (burned through the first tires fast and sold the first set of wheels due to no space). The standard EVSE is upgraded to 16 amps (non-adjustable) and should hopefully be still with the car.

all good to know :)
looks like it still has the Juke wheels and MXM tires I didnt even notice that, other then they still had decent tred left

I was wondering what the extra box was under the dash, didnt find the wiring in the rear hump yet, but I will look when I get it back.

good to know about the EVSE, I have a L2 at home already for my Volt, so not as critical for me, but will verify it is the upgraded one.
 
well, I got the Leaf back from Round Rock Nissan this afternoon.
the service notes show they replaced module #29, not sure why thats different from what leafspy shows,
but the obvious new cell and the bad cell shown in the leafspy output from Jeremy match

I ran it down to VLB, got 54 miles, is this normal for a pack that is unbalanced ?

I sat in the driveway with the heat cranked to 90 until it hit 5 GID, lowest cell was 3.19x volts so decided to stop,
didnt want to push it too far since the new cell was still at 3.712.

I did let it go a little below this screenshot, not sure why my phone didnt save the one at 5 GID :(


Got it charging now on my L2 EVSE at home, will see how it balances out overnight.
 

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BiggieJohn said:
the service notes show they replaced module #29, not sure why thats different from what leafspy shows
There are 48 modules in the LEAF and each module has 4 cells in a 2P-2S config. Module 29 will correspond to cell-pairs 57-58 which is what shows up in your screenshot.

BiggieJohn said:
I ran it down to VLB, got 54 miles, is this normal for a pack that is unbalanced ?
The LeafSpy shot is about what I'd expect for a 3.5 year old LEAF with a module replaced. As far as range, hard to say without knowing how efficiently you drove, but your weakest cells will always limit how far you can drive.

BiggieJohn said:
Got it charging now on my L2 EVSE at home, will see how it balances out overnight.
Yes, hopefully it does balance out OK at the top, please post once it's charged up to 100%.
 
this morning after a full charge it's down to 9 bars, and now shows 182 GIDs 88.9% SOC when fully charged.

I'm going to cycle it again today and see what happens.

hx=49.40% doesnt look so good
 

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I'm curious to see how the SOH and Hx change after a few charge cycles. For warranty sake, I hope your SOH doesn't go up. :)

I wouldn't worry about the cells not exactly balancing. Even though they're at a lower voltage at 100%, that doesn't mean they are out of balance. They probably have at least 10 Ah more capacity.
 
JeremyW said:
I wouldn't worry about the cells not exactly balancing. Even though they're at a lower voltage at 100%, that doesn't mean they are out of balance. They probably have at least 10 Ah more capacity.
Yep, as long as the new cells are lower in voltage at high SOC and higher in voltage at low SOC, you're getting as much range as possible out of the pack (assuming the other cells stay relatively in balance).

Also curious to see if the pack eventually top balances out, looks like it's trying!
 
drees said:
Also curious to see if the pack eventually top balances out, looks like it's trying!
I think it will always struggle, since it balances always during charge and discharge.

It seems to me that with one module (two cell-pairs) replaced, the battery will have an EASIER time passing the CVLI test since a cell-pair would have to drop below the mean voltage by 1.5X the amount that those new cell-pairs exceed the average voltage. In other words, you will have to have quite a bit weaker cell in order to fail that test.
 
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