DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15564
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:31 am

danrjones wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:12 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:04 am
danrjones wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:27 am


Sorry, I forgot to mention, I've done multiple short DC sessions at the station near me. But I always stop before hitting 70% SOC. Did not seem to impact my HX. Sample size of one (just me) and its during winter (and short session) so my pack doesn't get hot, so hard to draw conclusions.
I haven't charged to above 70% either. In most cases, I was only charging to 45-55% (the knee on 200 amp stations)

I guess my real question is what is the desirable Hx? Because I see ones with high Hx still getting relatively large chunks on adjustment day while others with Hx in high 90's or low 100's getting no adjustment, very small adjustments or positive adjustments.

Now there is always exceptions so all my comments should be taken as "majority" observations.
I have no idea what HX is desirable (good question) or if it is good to be low or high, or makes no difference. I was just doing an experiment because I could.

My HX is lower than yours and yet my SOH is not better, and for my mileage (about 8700 miles total), one could say my SOH is worse.
Right now my best guess is that SOH is primarily related to age, secondarily related to climate and cycles. But the BMS could also be hiding the real answer.
With the new packs, there is little difference for the first 7-10% degradation other than time. So mileage, charging habits, climate, etc. None seem to matter. My clock started Nov 2019. There is some evidence that exercise seems to help but not a lot, maybe 2-3%. So drive more, pack "seems" healthier but I am not all that convinced the BMS is giving us the straight story.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danrjones
Posts: 995
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:52 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:31 am


With the new packs, there is little difference for the first 7-10% degradation other than time. So mileage, charging habits, climate, etc. None seem to matter. My clock started Nov 2019. There is some evidence that exercise seems to help but not a lot, maybe 2-3%. So drive more, pack "seems" healthier but I am not all that convinced the BMS is giving us the straight story.
That all sounds about right from what I've seen. I bought my 2018 in 2019 but it had been sitting around on the dealer lot for a year I think.

I'm curious to see what happens in the 3-5 year period on these but honestly I don't think I'll keep it that long. I'm eyeing the Audi Q4 Etron depending on the entry price.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15564
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:28 am

danrjones wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:52 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:31 am


With the new packs, there is little difference for the first 7-10% degradation other than time. So mileage, charging habits, climate, etc. None seem to matter. My clock started Nov 2019. There is some evidence that exercise seems to help but not a lot, maybe 2-3%. So drive more, pack "seems" healthier but I am not all that convinced the BMS is giving us the straight story.
That all sounds about right from what I've seen. I bought my 2018 in 2019 but it had been sitting around on the dealer lot for a year I think.

I'm curious to see what happens in the 3-5 year period on these but honestly I don't think I'll keep it that long. I'm eyeing the Audi Q4 Etron depending on the entry price.
Surprised you aren't waiting for Toyota's solid state? Will be here in...2 years...maybe 3.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Triggerhappy007
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:08 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2019

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:52 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:31 am
danrjones wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:12 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:04 am


I haven't charged to above 70% either. In most cases, I was only charging to 45-55% (the knee on 200 amp stations)

I guess my real question is what is the desirable Hx? Because I see ones with high Hx still getting relatively large chunks on adjustment day while others with Hx in high 90's or low 100's getting no adjustment, very small adjustments or positive adjustments.

Now there is always exceptions so all my comments should be taken as "majority" observations.
I have no idea what HX is desirable (good question) or if it is good to be low or high, or makes no difference. I was just doing an experiment because I could.

My HX is lower than yours and yet my SOH is not better, and for my mileage (about 8700 miles total), one could say my SOH is worse.
Right now my best guess is that SOH is primarily related to age, secondarily related to climate and cycles. But the BMS could also be hiding the real answer.
With the new packs, there is little difference for the first 7-10% degradation other than time. So mileage, charging habits, climate, etc. None seem to matter. My clock started Nov 2019. There is some evidence that exercise seems to help but not a lot, maybe 2-3%. So drive more, pack "seems" healthier but I am not all that convinced the BMS is giving us the straight story.
So I just got my first readjustment on my 20 Plus since buying in November. Today is the anniversary from when the car was built. SOH is at 97.08% compared to 91.75% with my 19 non-Plus at the anniversary mark. On my non-Plus, I had over 200 more QCs, and 20,000 more miles difference so that may be the reason for the difference in SOH at the 1 year mark.

As far as solid state batteries, I wonder how expensive the chargers will be and how much charging will cost?
2020 Leaf Plus SV Tech & All Weather
2019 Leaf SL - traded in
2020 Pacifica Hybrid Limited AST

SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:40 pm

Triggerhappy007 wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:52 pm
As far as solid state batteries, I wonder how expensive the chargers will be and how much charging will cost?
I suggest you first wonder how much they will cost and how long they will last.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

danrjones
Posts: 995
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:44 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:28 am


Surprised you aren't waiting for Toyota's solid state? Will be here in...2 years...maybe 3.

My wife seems to think the badge on the front and back matter, in so much as a status symbol. I could care less but she wants a luxury vehicle. Seems to be part of her genetics.

I do like Volvo but the XC40 recharge is over priced and under delivered in terms of range. The "rumor" is the Q4 etron will start much lower in price and have a range about the same as the ID4.

As far as Toyota, I don't like the direction they have taken regarding EVs.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 5994
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:01 pm

danrjones wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:44 pm
My wife seems to think the badge on the front and back matter, in so much as a status symbol. I could care less but she wants a luxury vehicle. Seems to be part of her genetics.
I take it you drove the LEAF. Were you forced to park it in front of the neighbor's house ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15564
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:09 pm

Triggerhappy007 wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:52 pm

As far as solid state batteries, I wonder how expensive the chargers will be and how much charging will cost?
I have no doubt we will have plenty of time to contemplate that question. This from an area where 75% of DC chargers still run at 100-125 amps
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danrjones
Posts: 995
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:35 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:01 pm
danrjones wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:44 pm
My wife seems to think the badge on the front and back matter, in so much as a status symbol. I could care less but she wants a luxury vehicle. Seems to be part of her genetics.
I take it you drove the LEAF. Were you forced to park it in front of the neighbor's house ?
Actually I rather like the hatchback design and think it looks just fine.
But the wife grew up in a culture where status symbols matter, and she wants the next EV to be a luxury vehicle.
The real problem is that she drove it a few times and realized how much better an EV actually is.

As to me, I want more range and a better ability to fast charge it. I like my Tesla stock, but still not a big fan of the interior design with just a single screen on the Y. More importantly, I want that 7500 tax credit. As I said, my favorite of the next batch is the XC-40 but Volvo screwed up in price and poor range.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2584
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:17 pm

I also really like the design of the Recharge. If it had 300 epa miles, it could at least feel like a do-able value. At 208 and the auto shows showing what looks more like 150s, also agree , no thanks.
2019 S Plus (93.86% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (93.35% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

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