danrjones
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:40 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:17 pm
I also really like the design of the Recharge. If it had 300 epa miles, it could at least feel like a do-able value. At 208 and the auto shows showing what looks more like 150s, also agree , no thanks.
Exactly. If you do the most basic build you can, it is $55085 with destination before tax or credits. And that wouldn't get you a lot of the good Tech or even safety packages or heat pump or a color that wouldn't fry my butt here in the summer.

So back on topic, should I keep going with my HX experiment or does it even matter? I'm going to have to charge to 100% when I take my car in next month anyway.

How often do various folks here charge to 100%? I've always wondered if an occasional full charge is good for the BMS to help figure out how much SOH you actually have.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

DougWantsALeaf
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:43 pm

I am now trying to ensure to do 1 100% charge per quarter to see if it lessens the quarterly adjustments or not. Next adjustments in Feb and March on the cars.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

LeftieBiker
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:17 pm

How often do various folks here charge to 100%? I've always wondered if an occasional full charge is good for the BMS to help figure out how much SOH you actually have.
Rarely. It doesn't seem to me to matter.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:54 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:43 pm
I am now trying to ensure to do 1 100% charge per quarter to see if it lessens the quarterly adjustments or not. Next adjustments in Feb and March on the cars.
Any change would be inconclusive. Its not like the adjustments are predictable with any kind of accuracy. A much easier task is tracking Hx I would think. At least you have daily feedback of it going up or down.

Lately, I have been wondering if Hx responds to time at very low or very high SOC? I am doing a quarter where the aim will be no lower than 30% SOC (target actually 45%), no higher than 75% (typical would be 60%) this is higher than the previous quarter when I was running primarily from 20 to 45%
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
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danrjones
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Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:42 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:54 pm
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:43 pm
I am now trying to ensure to do 1 100% charge per quarter to see if it lessens the quarterly adjustments or not. Next adjustments in Feb and March on the cars.
Any change would be inconclusive. Its not like the adjustments are predictable with any kind of accuracy. A much easier task is tracking Hx I would think. At least you have daily feedback of it going up or down.

Lately, I have been wondering if Hx responds to time at very low or very high SOC? I am doing a quarter where the aim will be no lower than 30% SOC (target actually 45%), no higher than 75% (typical would be 60%) this is higher than the previous quarter when I was running primarily from 20 to 45%
That theory is exactly what I was starting to think.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

danrjones
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Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:41 am

Just a quick status update.

My 2018 with about 8900 miles on it:

SOH: 90.02
AMPHr: 103.92
Hx: 103.03
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

danrjones
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:32 am

Trip report and data from my trip to my dealer last Friday.

My dealer is almost exactly 90 miles from my house. Had my tires at 40 psi. Was about 30f outside, plus or minus during the drive.
Had my charge timer set to be ready at 6:00 am, left my house at 6:30.
For some reason it never actually reached 100%, so my GOM had 98% while leaf spy showed 96.7%.

Arrived at the dealer with 10% showing on the GOM, Leafspy showed 20.1%. I had pre-heated so no heating during the drive needed, just seat and wheel turned on. ABRP (A Better Route Planner) said that with 10% battery degradation and starting at SOC of 100%, I should have arrived with 14% battery. One thing I'm not clear is whether ABRP shows the SOC that I see in my GOM or whether that SOC is what I am seeing in LeafSpy. Anyone know? I'll use the GOM for the moment. As I only reached 98%, the adjusted destination for ABRP should have been 12%. Personally I think arriving at 10% is pretty close to the predicated results, and even a slight wind will dramatically change the arrival SOC. So trying to decide if my battery is really at 10% degradation is difficult. I ended up DC charging in three different chunks before and after the dealer appointment, which took 3+ hours to rotate my tires and adjust my door. So I'm not detailing the return trip. The third stat below is from the next day, and after some charging overnight. Hx definitely took a jump up. Hard to say whether it was from the DC charging or from the extended periods of time at high and low SOC. I am going to re-start my 30%-70% experiment and we will see what happens. One last interesting piece of data came from the MyLeaf app which says I used 26.31 kwh for that drive to the dealer. One can attempt some calculations using that number to obtain battery SOH. I've heard the useable battery is 36 kWh of the 40. The only question I have is whether the SOC in LeafSpy contains that unusable portion, or whether you can get down to 0% SOC in LeafSpy. That drastically changes the calculation.

Starting Stats (LeafSpy):
SOH: 90.02
AHr: 103.92
Hx: 102.71
SOC: 96.7

Arrival Stats:
SOH: 90.02
AHr: 103.92
Hx: 102.71
SOC: 20.1

Next Day Stats:
SOH: 90.01
AHr: 103.91
Hx: 102.96
SOC: 55.3%

Degradation Calculations (Leaf spy):
Actual Battery Used: 96.7%-20.1% =76.6%
Useable Pack Capacity: 26.31/.76.6 = 34.3 kWh.
Degradation: 34.3/36 = 95.3%

However, I think Leafspy SHOWS you some or all of the reserved part of the pack. I have never been able to see 100% SOC in LeafSpy. I don't know what you can get down to, but I think I heard 5%? So if Leafspy includes the hidden portion of the battery, the math is very different. For the second version I will use the car's reported SOC.

Degradation Calculations:
Actual Battery Used: 98%-10% = 88%
Useable Pack Capacity: 26.31/.88 = 29.9 kWh.
Degradation: 29.9/36 = 83%

Honesty I don't think either 95% or 83% make sense. So maybe LeafSpy is showing some but not all of the reserved battery? Without knowing how much, it is hard to get the math correct.

I would be curious if people assume ABRP to show your GOM SOC % or the SOC in Leafspy, and what the lowest LeafSpy SOC you have ever gotten down to?
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SageBrush
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:39 pm

I've read that the '40 kWh' LEAF starts with 38 kWh usable. I'm not sure if it is correct but starting from that point:

Your SoC dropped 76.6% and per LSpy you consumed 26.31 kWh
That implies total usable of 26.31/0.766 = 34.34 kWh
If new is 38 kWh then degradation is 1 - 34.34/38 = 9.5%

That matches up well with the reported SOH drop

---
I would not make much of one trip, but 3 miles per kWh without heat use is low. An Audi in your hands is going to post some *really* low numbers unless you were driving on flat tyres. Or perhaps you left the handbrake on ?

---
Albuquerque was 50F and sunny today but the Model 3 battery was mid 30sF when I left home for a 30 mile drive today. First to the state park for a walk and then downtown to buy our favorite salsa. I drive gently for the most part, stay below 70 mph on the highway, and don't pay attention to fuel economy until I get home. The trip worked out to 5.5 miles/kWh. Pretty typical.

I also calculated my '100% SoC range' before I walked into the house. 318 miles -- no decrease in almost 3 years. BORING
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

danrjones
Posts: 881
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:25 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:39 pm
I've read that the '40 kWh' LEAF starts with 38 kWh usable. I'm not sure if it is correct but starting from that point:

Your SoC dropped 76.6% and per LSpy you consumed 26.31 kWh
That implies total usable of 26.31/0.766 = 34.34 kWh
If new is 38 kWh then degradation is 1 - 34.34/38 = 9.5%

That matches up well with the reported SOH drop

---
I would not make much of one trip, but 3 miles per kWh without heat use is low. An Audi in your hands is going to post some *really* low numbers unless you were driving on flat tyres. Or perhaps you left the handbrake on ?

---
Albuquerque was 50F and sunny today but the Model 3 battery was mid 30sF when I left home for a 30 mile drive today. First to the state park for a walk and then downtown to buy our favorite salsa. I drive gently for the most part, stay below 70 mph on the highway, and don't pay attention to fuel economy until I get home. The trip worked out to 5.5 miles/kWh. Pretty typical.

I also calculated my '100% SoC range' before I walked into the house. 318 miles -- no decrease in almost 3 years. BORING
Agree with your math, if the useable portion is 38. I've seen 36 also online. I also don't know if LeafSpy shows SOC including or excluding the reserved.

My miles per kWh was 3.4. That's always been about my highway number with tires at 40psi and at 70 mph. (Done this trip multiple times over the last couple years and my miles per kWh seems consistent) Keep in mind this route has terrain. Around town I get ~ 5 to 5.5 miles per kWh on a nice day. And no, the brake wasn't on. in fact I think the Leaf auto kicks off your electric parking break if you try that.

Also, remember my numbers match ABRP pretty closely.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15423
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:42 am

The 98% reading on a "full" charge is normal and means pack was under the impression that more balancing was coming. I saw the same on my car and guess what? The move from 98% to 100% REDUCED my GOM by one mile.

Either way, its a waste of time to wait on 100%. I only did it because I didn't set a timer and had no appt so I pushed the issue.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
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