Kieran973
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2019
Location: near NY, NY

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:22 pm

2019 Leaf SV (silver) with All-Weather Package

Evoforce
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:48 am

Her solutions are comical. Uneven cooling of the pack is not a good thing. She also spent only a relatively small time in Arizona.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

cwerdna
Posts: 10223
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:14 am

Evoforce wrote:
Her solutions are comical. Uneven cooling of the pack is not a good thing. She also spent only a relatively small time in Arizona.
Haven't read the piece yet, but did see some of her posts on one of the Leaf FB groups. When she was screwing around w/the ice to cool the pack, she didn't have Leaf Spy to even monitor the battery temps even though we kept prodding her to do so. She kept claiming she broke her dongle (not sure how). Finally, she wised up, I guess.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:34 am

Evoforce wrote:
Her solutions are comical. Uneven cooling of the pack is not a good thing. She also spent only a relatively small time in Arizona.
I would not be as happy as she seems to be with 8.5% capacity loss in a year but in any case she really should double check that result with a charging test.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14609
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:18 am

Kieran973 wrote:And what do we make of this article?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/posting.php ... =9&t=25773

40,000 miles driven, 30,000 of them in Phoenix, constant rapid charging, and only 7.5% capacity loss according to Leaf Spy? Over 12,000 miles, that would only be 2.25% degradation. And imagine if she didn't rapid charge so much, and/or if she lived somewhere colder than Phoenix. Unless, of course, the 7.5% capacity loss was caused by 1.) calendar degradation in the bad AESC battery, and 2.) Phoenix, so it wouldn't really matter if she drove 40,000 miles or 1,000 miles in one year, she still would have experienced the same degradation regardless?

But how do you reconcile her Leaf's profile with say Leftie Biker's experience in his 2018?

Two things (neither of which is new)

QC's not as bad as we think as long as not charged to very high SOC.

High usage promotes better health. Its almost like exercising a muscle. Long periods of light/no use detrimental. Could be high usage means little time spent at high SOC (one of the many causes of higher rates of degradation)

Another thought; high usage confuses BMS.

Now a few have reported battery stats increasing. I have yet to see this but...

I am in a period where I am seeing large chunks lost nearly daily after 2½ months of very minimal loss. I thought this was an adjustment (happens like clockwork every 3ish months or so) but this one is different in that it has lasted at least 7 days and adds up to largest drop so far.

It is also a period that corresponds to lighter than normal usage including one day of no driving along with a handful of around 10 miles or less. As of this morning my total loss is now 6½% SOC.

Finally; I reported this about a month after receiving the car that the BMS was suspect.

Unlike my previous 3 LEAFs, I could not determine what the standard full charge profile of my pack was. It was all over the map including some charges that were much higher than they should have been. I believe that the issue is not the batteries, its Nissan battery management.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 4411.3 mi, 96.88% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TexasLeaf
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 am
Delivery Date: 17 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 303111
Location: Texas

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:36 am

Evoforce wrote:
Her solutions are comical. Uneven cooling of the pack is not a good thing. She also spent only a relatively small time in Arizona.
No her solutions are not comical. I have proven that the air conditioner can be used to cool the battery in a structured test with LeafSpy monitoring the results. I don’t see anything wrong about putting ice on the pack through the service plug hole but this does seem inefficient and messy.

I plan to start using an ice chest cooler, in conjunction the air conditioner, to blow ice cold air through the service plug hole this summer on long trips. Even when/if we get the software upgrade that allows faster charging at higher temperatures, there is still going to be a problem with the battery overheating. Since the EV industry (Nissan and aftermarket providers) are pretty much ignoring the issue, it’s going to be up to Leaf owners to come up with creative ideas to cool the Leaf battery packs.

Saying her efforts are comical is like saying someone crawling away from falling down a flight of stairs with serious injuries is comical. I know the frustration of having to wait, many times, on a slow charge caused by high battery temperatures. The person on the website came up with creative solutions to a very serious problem borne out of desperation and I don’t see YOU doing anything to help.
2018 Leaf SL
2015 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium
2007 GMC Envoy XL SLT 4X4

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14609
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:53 am

TexasLeaf wrote:
Evoforce wrote:
Her solutions are comical. Uneven cooling of the pack is not a good thing. She also spent only a relatively small time in Arizona.
No her solutions are not comical. I have proven that the air conditioner can be used to cool the battery in a structured test with LeafSpy monitoring the results. I don’t see anything wrong about putting ice on the pack through the service plug hole but this does seem inefficient and messy.

I plan to start using an ice chest cooler, in conjunction the air conditioner, to blow ice cold air through the service plug hole this summer on long trips. Even when/if we get the software upgrade that allows faster charging at higher temperatures, there is still going to be a problem with the battery overheating. Since the EV industry (Nissan and aftermarket providers) are pretty much ignoring the issue, it’s going to be up to Leaf owners to come up with creative ideas to cool the Leaf battery packs.

Saying her efforts are comical is like saying someone crawling away from falling down a flight of stairs with serious injuries is comical. I know the frustration of having to wait, many times, on a slow charge caused by high battery temperatures. The person on the website came up with creative solutions to a very serious problem borne out of desperation and I don’t see YOU doing anything to help.
Have you heard/inquired about when 2018's will get the charge curve update?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 4411.3 mi, 96.88% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TexasLeaf
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 am
Delivery Date: 17 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 303111
Location: Texas

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:57 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote: Have you heard/inquired about when 2018's will get the charge curve update?
This is just second hand information mind you (or maybe third or fourth) but I saw a video by Lemon-Tea Leaf where James said that one of his subscribers stated he received an email from Nissan Europe stating that a software update was available and that it would go into distribution soon. The battery management software version for the USA is different for the Europe version so I don’t know how this information applies to Leafs in the USA.

My yearly battery check is due in March. I plan to have the dealer check for software updates when I take my car in and I will specifically ask about the battery management software update. I know I have the “A” version and the latest Leafs have a “C” version so I will be able to check if I get updated to the latest version.
2018 Leaf SL
2015 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium
2007 GMC Envoy XL SLT 4X4

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14609
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:09 am

Evoforce wrote:
Her solutions are comical. Uneven cooling of the pack is not a good thing. She also spent only a relatively small time in Arizona.
whats worse is she was working nights driving Uber so was timing her full L2 charges to finish in the mid afternoon Sun of a Phoenix Summer (no garage, no shade, nada)

I am quite surprised her pack is still alive.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 4411.3 mi, 96.88% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:16 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Evoforce wrote:
Her solutions are comical. Uneven cooling of the pack is not a good thing. She also spent only a relatively small time in Arizona.
whats worse is she was working nights driving Uber so was timing her full L2 charges to finish in the mid afternoon Sun of a Phoenix Summer (no garage, no shade, nada)

I am quite surprised her pack is still alive.
It is an interesting question whether she knew enough to time her charging so that the car would not sit fully charged for hours every day.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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