lorenfb
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Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:04 am

danrjones wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:30 am

I'm still a believer that part of my problem is the heat here. I don't buy the idea heat has no impact. For one thing, even the BMS treats hot weather differently. During the winter that daily adjustment of 0.01 occurs only once a week, or even less. Right now I'm loosing 0.01 every day, yesterday morning it dropped 0.02. I think we all agree the BMS appears artificial. But even if the computer is artificially lowering my SOH faster during hot weather, then it means Nissan engineers programmed it to take away more during hot weather. Why would they do that? The most obvious reason is because hot weather degrades the battery faster. You are welcome to disagree but the fact remains the BMS takes away more during hot weather. That's a fact for my 2018. Now hopefully that will stop... but it hasn't yet. Last three month adjustment was basically nil so I'm curious to see what happens after the summer.
Your comments are spot on! To think otherwise is naive.
Last edited by lorenfb on Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1975
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:40 pm

I saw a YouTube today from Portugal about the ID3, and in some of the leaked documents, VW mentioned that ambient temperature affects battery life.
2019 S Plus (97.98% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.84% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

danrjones
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:09 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:40 pm
I saw a YouTube today from Portugal about the ID3, and in some of the leaked documents, VW mentioned that ambient temperature affects battery life.
I saw a hot hatch somewhere on the WWW over the weekend, does VW have a sub brand called "SEAT"? If you like hatchbacks, check it out, i thought it looked even better than the ID3 and it will be built on the same platform I believe. Anyway I thought it looked sharp. YMMV

So the question is, HOW does ambient impact life. And do they mean SOC or SOH?

I need to update my excel plots with all my latest data. Was at 89.65% SOH this AM. But my HX is dropping, 108.48. I wish it was easier to post charts and graphs here but I can't post directly.

Added note: The trend-line in excel, which of course could drastically change, suggests I'll loose my first bar around Feb to March of next year (SOH drop below 85%?)
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

lorenfb
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:47 am

danrjones wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:09 am

So the question is, HOW does ambient impact life.
You know the answer to that, i.e. it depends on the temp of ambient, right? If you live in Death Valley during the summer, it really matters.
If you live in the PNW, ambient typically is of little concern.
danrjones wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:09 am
But my HX is dropping, 108.48.
Why worry about HX, with the Leaf2 it's meaningless? The only parameters worth tracking are SOH & Ahr, Ahr being key.
Since the Li Ion battery voltage doesn't change significantly over SOC, one's range is best described by miles/Ahr.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

goldbrick
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:31 am

I think Seat is a VW model line, not a brand but someone in the EU should know for sure.

As far as ambient temp affects, I always thought was related to Arrhenius' Law, which I've taken to hold that atomic/chemical reactions (degradation) happen faster at warmer temperatures.

cwerdna
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:45 am

goldbrick wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:31 am
I think Seat is a VW model line, not a brand but someone in the EU should know for sure.
It is a brand of VAG:
https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/group.html
https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/brands- ... /seat.html
https://www.seat.com/
https://www.seat.com/company/history.html

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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

danrjones
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:30 pm

lorenfb wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:47 am
danrjones wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:09 am

So the question is, HOW does ambient impact life.
You know the answer to that, i.e. it depends on the temp of ambient, right? If you live in Death Valley during the summer, it really matters.
If you live in the PNW, ambient typically is of little concern.
danrjones wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:09 am
But my HX is dropping, 108.48.
Why worry about HX, with the Leaf2 it's meaningless? The only parameters worth tracking are SOH & Ahr, Ahr being key.
Since the Li Ion battery voltage doesn't change significantly over SOC, one's range is best described by miles/Ahr.
I DO practically live in Death Valley. But the warranty of my Leaf didn't say I couldn't.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:53 am

danrjones wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:30 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:15 am
danrjones wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:01 pm


Death by a thousand paper cuts?

My in town isn't large enough to exceed about 20 miles a day. And my actual commute is about 2.5 each way. Even if the battery heavily degrades in the heat the car will do fine in town for years. Mileage might be irrelevant to degradation ...
What is your SOC targets for charge/discharge? What "seems" to be common are LEAFs driven heavily that degrade slowly while other LEAFs driven very lightly degrade faster. On the latter, there was a lot of evidence suggesting the lack of custom charge settings being the a factor with more than a handful simply "plugging it in and forgetting it"

My 30 kwh LEAF with supposedly one of the worst batteries went 30,000 miles in 14 months and 2 days died with 100% SOH and ahr of 82.05 of max 82.34 or 99.6% of new capacity. Since I rarely charged to full, I don't know how close I was to the maximum GID count of 363 but guessing I wasn't too far off. I did 116 miles on a single charge in Jan 2 days before the accident
Well if only Nissan allowed a set point for SOC, right?

But most of the time I have my timer set to well after I leave for work, so that when I unplug I'm around 70-75%. It is never the same each time for some odd reason but close enough. And I'll recharge when I get down around 35%. Sometimes 40% if a weekend is coming so I don't have to charge on the weekend, because inevitably I'll plugin and forget about it Saturday or Sunday morning and it would charge to full.

I'm still a believer that part of my problem is the heat here. I don't buy the idea heat has no impact. For one thing, even the BMS treats hot weather differently. During the winter that daily adjustment of 0.01 occurs only once a week, or even less. Right now I'm loosing 0.01 every day, yesterday morning it dropped 0.02. I think we all agree the BMS appears artificial. But even if the computer is artificially lowering my SOH faster during hot weather, then it means Nissan engineers programmed it to take away more during hot weather. Why would they do that? The most obvious reason is because hot weather degrades the battery faster. You are welcome to disagree but the fact remains the BMS takes away more during hot weather. That's a fact for my 2018. Now hopefully that will stop... but it hasn't yet. Last three month adjustment was basically nil so I'm curious to see what happens after the summer.
That is a good plan. I have seen a few studies that suggest the best shallow cycle range is actually a bit more than 50% so my "target" is 60% but I have a slightly shorter commute than what I normally replace on a daily basis so the SOC creeps up during the week so I end up anywhere from 55% early in the week to 70% towards the end.

I set mine to start charging at 4 AM and get up at 5:40, leaving at 7. So if I know the SOC will be high, I unplug when I get up or soon after. If its normal, I usually unplug around 6:30ish. If I plan to take a longer (much longer) detour that day, I will leave it plugged in until I depart.

Realize, I use barely 10% of my range on a straight to work, straight home commute (there are detours I commonly make but none add more than 2-3 miles to the distance traveled)

So right now, slightly more than half of my cycling is in the 50sih to 65% range. Generally if I get home with more than 50% I will sometimes skip a day
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
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danrjones
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:42 am

No updates in this thread for awhile, I guess everyone has those "+" models now!

Stats as of this AM, the summer keeps chipping away at my SOH.

SOH: 89.45%
AMPHr: 103.26
Hx: 108.43
Mileage: ~ 6800 miles

IF, and that's a big IF, I have any more of those 3 month adjustments the next one would be around Sept 18th.
But not sure I will have any more of those as my last one in June was basically nothing.
The summer definitely seems to impact the battery, or the BMS, as I am loosing .01 or even .02 SOH each day.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:22 am

Even us Plus owners see similar activity. My S+ is down .3 over the past 2 months (now 98.2%), and my SV+ is down .36 since mid may (94.29%). Both cars are up for their quarterly updates in about a week.
2019 S Plus (97.98% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.84% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

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