LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15279
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:32 pm

I used it only in Winter.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 10990
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:43 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:06 pm
iPlug wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:33 am
Yes but free. :D
If we owned the vehicle instead of leased again (3 year), and knowing the Leaf battery history, yeah would likely avoid that entirely.
To quote Bjorn Nyland: "Free charging is the DEVIL !."

People do all sorts of things when something is free of charge that otherwise run contrary to reasonable or smart behavior.

I wonder how much the LEAF battery degradation saga can be ascribed to the NCTC program
LOL. I love free charging. L2 charging is free at my work but we're not supposed to go to the office unless we have a really good reason to (long story). Since lockdown in mid-March, I've charged at work only twice when I went into pickup some devices when nobody was around.

I'd much rather use free charging (e.g. https://drivethearc.com/ for limited parts of Nor Cal, CCS recently quietly added to their free charging program) and some free L2 charging about 5 miles from home when I'm out (and can make it to the head of the ChargePoint wait list) and have time than pay over 31 cents/kWh marginal rate on Pacific Gouge & Extort. I try to get something done in my car during that time (e.g. eat, clean up junk mail, catch up on email, reading, watching videos, etc.)

Heck, I'd rather pay 18 cents/minute to charge on EA when my Bolt's below 55% SoC as it comes out to about 18 cents/kWh (not including $4/mo Pass+ fee) than to charge at home.

I'd imagine that NCTC at least helped fund EVgo and keep their per kWh costs under control at many locations to help balance out the demand charges. From what I understand, if a DC FC site (w/o energy storage to keep the peak demand down) is barely used but used at least once in a month, the resulting demand charges make the effective price per kWh super high.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

danrjones
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:28 am

Charging habits is an interesting thing. Right now I charge at night at home because its the cheapest power I can get - my night rate is about 15 cents per KWh. I have a small solar system but that daytime power is far more valuable putting into the grid, as grid day costs are as high as 48 cents or similar. But I'm in the planning stages to add additional solar. Once I get MORE solar, it might be cheapest for me to charge during the day. Under NEM 2.0 its cheapest to use your own power rather than to take any power from the grid. If only TESLA power walls weren't so expensive. A Powerwall starts at 6k (or is it 6.5?) for 13.5 KWh not including extra costs. That's $444++ per KWh. Not quite the $100 we all dream of, yet.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

SageBrush
Posts: 5158
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:39 am

danrjones wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:28 am
That's $444++ per KWh. Not quite the $100 we all dream of, yet.
It is still expensive, but perhaps not as much as first blush suggests
I think the powerwall is good for a lifetime of 10 years full operation equivalent, so
365 days a year
1 kWh a day
10 years
= 3650 kWh. At a cost of 44,400 cents, that is 44,400/3650 = 12.1 cents a kWh

If you cycle to 70% DoD my WAG is a halving of degradation rate. That would extend the lifetime and financing costs but it would also reduce the straight per kWh cost by 1.4x to 12.1/1.4 = 8.6 cents a kWh. For people who do not have the opportunity to charge during the daytime when the PV is producing, that is still cheaper than dirty night time electricity from the grid.

----
Absolutely, get more PV !
You will always find a use for PV generation during the day: heat or cool your house, heat up the hot water tank, charge your EV, use appliances ...
Or just hit your utility for high daytime NEM rates ;-)
Do keep in mind though that CA is moving peak hours to later in the day, so west facing PV will be more valuable as a NEM product
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

danrjones
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:33 am

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:39 am
danrjones wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:28 am
That's $444++ per KWh. Not quite the $100 we all dream of, yet.
It is still expensive, but perhaps not as much as first blush suggests
I think the powerwall is good for a lifetime of 10 years full operation equivalent, so
365 days a year
1 kWh a day
10 years
= 3650 kWh. At a cost of 44,400 cents, that is 44,400/3650 = 12.1 cents a kWh

If you cycle to 70% DoD my WAG is a halving of degradation rate. That would extend the lifetime and financing costs but it would also reduce the straight per kWh cost by 1.4x to 12.1/1.4 = 8.6 cents a kWh. For people who do not have the opportunity to charge during the daytime when the PV is producing, that is still cheaper than dirty night time electricity from the grid.

----
Absolutely, get more PV !
You will always find a use for PV generation during the day: heat or cool your house, heat up the hot water tank, charge your EV, use appliances ...
Or just hit your utility for high daytime NEM rates ;-)
Do keep in mind though that CA is moving peak hours to later in the day, so west facing PV will be more valuable as a NEM product

Yes, I'me going to put at least half facing west. Even then SCE is moving to 4-10pm or 5-9pm or similar, so that's where solar cuts off and a power wall dumping power out each evening would be helpful.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

danrjones
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:29 am

danrjones wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:42 am
No updates in this thread for awhile, I guess everyone has those "+" models now!

Stats as of this AM, the summer keeps chipping away at my SOH.

SOH: 89.45%
AMPHr: 103.26
Hx: 108.43
Mileage: ~ 6800 miles

IF, and that's a big IF, I have any more of those 3 month adjustments the next one would be around Sept 18th.
But not sure I will have any more of those as my last one in June was basically nothing.
The summer definitely seems to impact the battery, or the BMS, as I am loosing .01 or even .02 SOH each day.
Quick morning update:

SOH: 89.37%
AMPHr: 103.17
Hx: 108.27
Mileage: ~ 6920 miles

Temps in the batteries went below 100f this am for the first time in about a week. Looks like I've lost just under 0.01 per day since last update.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

rogersleaf
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:50 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Mar 2019
Leaf Number: 307726
Location: Kent, Ohio

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:00 pm

rogersleaf wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 6:49 pm
rogersleaf wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:06 pm
rogersleaf wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:24 am


At 15,000 miles at 1 week past 7 months ownership

LS stats:
AHr... 109.9
SOH... 95.2%
Hx... 115.38%
SOC... 98.6% and 479 GID
403.47v, cells balanced between 4.201-4.206v
odo... 15118
8 QC / 390 L2’s
At 10 months and 20,000 miles

LS stats:
AHr... 108.66
SOH... 94.13%
Hx... 121.84%
SOC... 98.2% and 471 GID
402.42v, cells balanced between 4.190-4.192v
odo... 20196
14 QC / 524 L2’s

Main difference in charging behavior and usage is due to cold weather. The car is getting charged to 100% daily using the timers so that charging completes about an hour before needing to leave on my commute. Then, the car's pre-heat timer is set so it's warm when leaving. Most nights the car is inside an attached garage.
At just under 14 months and 25,000 miles

LS stats:
AHr... 107.38
SOH... 93.03%
Hx... 117.59%
SOC... 98.8% and 469 GID
403.72v, cells balanced between 4.204-4.207v
odo... 25,072
18 QC / 652 L2’s
A bit overdue posting the last set of data. Pulled this last week.
I'm at 17 months now, 30,000 miles.
Looks like almost no capacity loss since the last time and GIDs are up by 2, find that hard to believe.
Must have found the fountain of youth.

LS stats:
AHr... 107.35
SOH... 92.99%
Hx... 109.64%
SOC... 99.2% and 471 GID
404.06v, cells balanced between 4.207-4.212v
odo... 30,271
20 QC / 772 L2’s
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver - returned 1/2017 at end of lease.
2019 SL - White - w/Tech Package

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14952
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:11 pm

rogersleaf wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:00 pm
rogersleaf wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 6:49 pm
rogersleaf wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:06 pm


At 10 months and 20,000 miles

LS stats:
AHr... 108.66
SOH... 94.13%
Hx... 121.84%
SOC... 98.2% and 471 GID
402.42v, cells balanced between 4.190-4.192v
odo... 20196
14 QC / 524 L2’s

Main difference in charging behavior and usage is due to cold weather. The car is getting charged to 100% daily using the timers so that charging completes about an hour before needing to leave on my commute. Then, the car's pre-heat timer is set so it's warm when leaving. Most nights the car is inside an attached garage.
At just under 14 months and 25,000 miles

LS stats:
AHr... 107.38
SOH... 93.03%
Hx... 117.59%
SOC... 98.8% and 469 GID
403.72v, cells balanced between 4.204-4.207v
odo... 25,072
18 QC / 652 L2’s
A bit overdue posting the last set of data. Pulled this last week.
I'm at 17 months now, 30,000 miles.
Looks like almost no capacity loss since the last time and GIDs are up by 2, find that hard to believe.
Must have found the fountain of youth.

LS stats:
AHr... 107.35
SOH... 92.99%
Hx... 109.64%
SOC... 99.2% and 471 GID
404.06v, cells balanced between 4.207-4.212v
odo... 30,271
20 QC / 772 L2’s
Looks like you might have had a small bump up in there that masked the general degradation since .04% loss in 3 months is bit tough to believe. Now, .4 or .5 I can believe. I think my smallest 3 month spread was in the .3 range?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rogersleaf
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:50 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Mar 2019
Leaf Number: 307726
Location: Kent, Ohio

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:21 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:11 pm

Looks like you might have had a small bump up in there that masked the general degradation since .04% loss in 3 months is bit tough to believe. Now, .4 or .5 I can believe. I think my smallest 3 month spread was in the .3 range?
Somehow think the entire degradation curve is cooked into the BMS software.
That's apparent with the stair-step pattern I see others recording, I don't watch that closely.

I do think I got a really solid car & battery pack. I'm not noticing a drop in usable range thus far.
Was at the dealer for a tire rotation last week. Their LEAF tech came out to return my keys, commented this one is definitely dialed in.
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver - returned 1/2017 at end of lease.
2019 SL - White - w/Tech Package

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1971
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:59 pm

Your stats look really good. Hope my Leaf hold up so well over next 20k miles.
2019 S Plus (97.98% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.84% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

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