mikemn
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:08 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Aug 2018
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Interpreting Leafspy results

Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:18 pm

I am confused about my Leafspy results from the past 4 months since purchasing my 2015 S. For the first 3 months, the SOH continually dropped. Then it jumped up by 4.5% in November/December. The only change was that we started L2 charging to 100% daily in early December vs. L1 charging to 80-90% typically in Aug/Sept/Oct/Nov.

Is it the change in charging habits or the much lower temp that is causing a significant boost in my SOH reading? I will be curious to see if it is a blip or remains at the end of January. Wished I didn't miss my November reading, but the wifi adapter I have had for years quit working with leaf spy so I got the LELink one and it is much more reliable.

Driving Habits same since purchased in August:
M/T/F - 28m commute me, W - 65m DW, Th - 75m DW/DD, S/Su - 40-60m around town.
Approx 1250m/mo

2015 S history:
Build date 9/2014 sold in ATL - unknown usage or charging.
Auctioned and moved to MN in 1/2017 with 19250m - L2 charged daily to 100% with 50m commute. Primary weekend vehicle when not traveling long distances. Parked in the garage.
Purchased from the second owner 8/25/2018 with 41408m - L1 charged for first 3 months, typically to 80-90%, simply because it wasn't fast enough to get to 100%. L2 charging to 100% daily for the past 3 weeks. Parked garage in winter, outside in summer.

Leaf spy results:

Date 8/31 - avg hi/lo outside temp 81/62 in August
Mileage 41572
SOC 0.745
AHr 56.27
SOH 0.9061
Hx 0.8346
QC 70
L1/L2 1528

Date 9/30 - avg outside temp 72/52 in september
Mileage 43129
SOC 0.726
AHr 54.27
SOH 0.8739
Hx 0.7943
QC 74
L1/L2 1573

Date 10/31 - avg outside temp 58/40 in October
Mileage 44416
SOC 0.598
AHr 55.16
SOH 0.8866
Hx 0.8118
QC 77
L1/L2 1616

Date 12/27 - avg outside temp 27/12 in december
Mileage 46543
SOC 0.744
AHr 57.75
SOH 0.93
Hx 0.8643
QC 86
L1/L2 1728
2015 S, purchased 8-2018 with 41408 miles

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2289
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:43 pm

My experience with 2015 SL is that LEAF Spy numbers improve with high-rate L2 charging and aggressive driving and drop with gentle driving and low-rate L2 charging (have not used L1 except to try the EVSE with a portable generator). Also, DCQC always improves LEAF Spy numbers on my 2015 for a while. I suspect the high current in the reverse direction is beneficial as long as battery temperature is not excessively high. I have always charged to 100% and usually discharge to a few miles after VLBW (very low battery warning) each day.

Therefore, I believe your improved LEAF Spy numbers are due to several DCQC's and L2 charging.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL+ purchased 8/10/2019

WetEV
Posts: 3204
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:52 pm

GerryAZ wrote:Therefore, I believe your improved LEAF Spy numbers are due to several DCQC's and L2 charging.
I agree.

LEAF Spy number changes less than 3% are probably not meaningful. Expect that sort of variability for no real reason.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

mikemn
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:08 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Aug 2018
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:19 am

Thanks for the responses. I will keep tracking. Hoping for 3% or less degradation per year, so whether it is at 87% or 93% SOH today I am satisfied with the battery health thus far.
2015 S, purchased 8-2018 with 41408 miles

stjohnh
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:27 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 409675
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:52 am

Also remember, the numbers you see on LeafSpy are translations of data reported by the computer in the car. The translation has been done over several years of hard work by Turbo3 and others who have reverse engineered the data coming out of the computer. Nissan has not given ANY help to those trying to interpret the gazillions of 0's and 1's coming from the computer. So there are certain data that remain difficult to interpret.
Blessings,
Holland

2 LEAFS, bought 1 week apart. 2013 S for me, 2013 SV is wife's. Both manufactured May 2013. I lost first bar at 36,000. Wife still has all bars at 50,000.

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 1503
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:05 am

Remember LEAFSpy is a reverse engineered hack, and is based on the best guesses of hobbyists in the community. About the only data that it provides that can be verified are the OBDII messages that are standardized across vehicles. The other data, like battery info, that is unique to the LEAF is IP that belongs to Nissan and they are not going to be providing any information about what it means. In fact they will be encrypting their data in future releases of the LEAF.

LEAFSpy is a good piece of SW but it is purely for entertainment. Using it to try in make meaningful interpretation or diagnostics of your LEAF is a fools errand.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

goldbrick
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:55 am

Thanks for the heads-up. I think I just decided my Leaf is never going back to any Nissan dealership unless it needs warranty repair. The last thing I want is for some software 'update' to be done that would disable the capability of LeafSpy to give me data about what is going on in the car.

Personally, I'd like to see OBDII regulations that require EV's to conform to a minimum mandated command set to report various parameters to any OBDII compliant reader, as I believe ICE cars do today. Having a manufacturer try to hide that information behind encryption doesn't sit well with me.

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 1503
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:50 pm

The issue isn't keeping you from messing with stuff that may get you into trouble with, it is more to do with the security and performance of the car's network buss.

The systems of today's cars, especially those that have safety and autonomous systems woven together take an enormous amount of bandwidth to do what they do. As these systems become more integrated together to support higher levels of autonomous services the need for bandwidth is paramount. I have spoken with several systems engineers for Nissan and other manufactures, and their complaint is that enthusiast sniffer software is usually poorly written when it comes to network traffic optimization, and can slow the cars network significantly. This is bad especially if systems that manage AEC, DCC or lane keeping, cannot respond to a safety situation because of network congestion.

Further there is a huge amount of paranoia (justifiably) by all manufacturers of those that would infiltrate a cars systems to do harm.

If you look at this from the manufacturers point of view, then you can understand why they would not publish their vehicles API, and is the key issue in the move to both faster vehicle networks, and encryption. It's really got nothing to do with the desires of the enthusiast driver to satisfy their curiosity. Technically and legally they are under no obligation to provide the customer with anything more than a black box product.

As far as expanding the OBDII regulations, it is unlikely that it will happen because OBDII is targeted directly at emissions systems performance. This is why expanding the API for vehicles that do not emit any emissions is a non-starter.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

WetEV
Posts: 3204
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:08 pm

OrientExpress wrote:LEAFSpy is a good piece of SW but it is purely for entertainment. Using it to try in make meaningful interpretation or diagnostics of your LEAF is a fools errand.
I beg to differ.

LEAFSpy has both some instrumentation that the LEAF should have, and some worthwhile lower level controls. Major flaws in the LEAFs user level controls are:

Temperatures should be in degrees, at least C. How else can I know how fast to expect a QC?

GOM should allow user to set what consumption is expected, and give miles to something other than empty battery.

Nav system tell you if you will run out of battery before getting to the destination. What if I want to be at Low Battery Warning or above at the destination? Or VLBW? Or at some some percentage? Nav system should allow me to set these as goals

Tire pressure readout for all tires.


Lower level diagnostics and controls include:

Cell voltage/balance.

DTCs.

Door lock controls, sound controls, more...
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

stjohnh
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:27 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 409675
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:21 pm

Well, I've used LeafSpy for several years. One real world benefit for me is that I drive below VLBW fairly frequently. The GOM gives NO data for very low battery, which seems to me to be the opposite of what it should do. If I am 5 miles from home, knowing that I have only 4 miles of juice left is VERY important to me. Additionally, if I am 0.5 miles from home, I care a LOT if I only have 0.4 vs 0.6 miles of juice left.

Definitely not just "entertainment."
Blessings,
Holland

2 LEAFS, bought 1 week apart. 2013 S for me, 2013 SV is wife's. Both manufactured May 2013. I lost first bar at 36,000. Wife still has all bars at 50,000.

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