cwerdna
Posts: 9833
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:18 pm

stjohnh wrote:Also remember, the numbers you see on LeafSpy are translations of data reported by the computer in the car. The translation has been done over several years of hard work by Turbo3 and others who have reverse engineered the data coming out of the computer. Nissan has not given ANY help to those trying to interpret the gazillions of 0's and 1's coming from the computer. So there are certain data that remain difficult to interpret.
Yep.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... oh#p539274 has a pointer from a post to Turbo3 (author of Leaf Spy) himself about SOH and Hx. It also includes some origins what is now rendered as SOH and Hx.

Here are my thoughts on the values that the tool can render:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 29#p532929
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=510091#p510091

BTW, regarding module voltages displayed by the app, I suspect they're reasonably accurate (within whatever the error is of the BMS) given the work that Turbo3 did at viewtopic.php?t=17470 and viewtopic.php?p=380865#p380865.

I agree w/the other comments by stjohnh and WetEV. There is plenty of useful info (some can only be used for some rough comparisons such as AHr, SOH and Hx) and some really useful functionality in Leaf Spy that goes FAR beyond entertainment. There's probably only one person (well, no more than single digit # of people) here on MNL who chooses to dismiss it... Who knows if he/they "secretly" uses the app anyway?

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

arnis
Posts: 966
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:16 pm

mikemn wrote:I am confused about my Leafspy results from the past 4 months since purchasing my 2015 S. For the first 3 months, the SOH continually dropped. Then it jumped up by 4.5% in November/December. The only change was that we started L2 charging to 100% daily in early December vs. L1 charging to 80-90% typically in Aug/Sept/Oct/Nov.

Is it the change in charging habits or the much lower temp that is causing a significant boost in my SOH reading? I will be curious to see if it is a blip or remains at the end of January. Wished I didn't miss my November reading, but the wifi adapter I have had for years quit working with leaf spy so I got the LELink one and it is much more reliable.
It's the anomaly of not knowing "how much there actually is" if you have not been at the borders (very full, very empty) for a long time.
Computer tries to estimate as well as it can but it doesn't actually know as there is a small measuring error allowed when energy enters and leaves the battery. So computer often estimates that it is worse than it actually might be. And when temperature gets to around 4-5 temp bars and some full charges or rapid charges are made, then there is some new data for computer to estimate actual battery life.
One of the health parameters is "how well does battery accept charge" at some specific temperature range. And that can be measured only when rapidly charging.
So what actually happened is that with full/rapid charges new data determined that actually, battery is not that bad.
Newer numbers will likely stay that way until next summer. It will drop again if no full charges / rapid charges are made for weeks and weeks.

Battery health doesn't fall as rapidly as computer estimates and battery health doesn't get better later on. It just.. is as it actually is :lol:

The newer number after full charges/rapid charges should be more precise to real condition of that battery.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

PolinEV
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:34 am
Delivery Date: 14 Apr 2017

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:57 am

Whoa, as it so happens my Leaf's battery capacity reading spiked up after a recent long distance trip across Florida (Jacksonville to St Petersburg). It had been hovering around 46.4 AHr for Nov/Dec. When I checked on Dec 26th it was back up to 47.7. Today is it 47.5.

Perhaps it knows my 8 bar battery capacity warranty expires in June and its pumping it up? hehe, j/k.

Just sharing my experience. I don't really have any explanation.
2014 Leaf S, bought in March 2017.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
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Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:11 pm

Battery health and capacity numbers in Leaf Spy are subject to variation, but the real value of Leaf Spy Pro is being able to read and clear DTCs (diagnostic trouble codes). It has saved me the hassle of having to call for a tow truck on several occasions with both 2011 and 2015. Communication errors between the car and DCQC or L1/L2 charging stations can set DTCs in the LEAF which will prevent it from charging at other stations until the codes are cleared. Being able to clear those codes has saved me the hassle of having the car towed to the dealer several times. As far as I know, Leaf Spy is the only realistic alternative to Nissan's Consult 3+ for communicating with the LEAF and clearing DTCs. I would consider purchasing Consult 3+ from Nissan if I could get the necessary hardware and software for a reasonable price.

Orient Express: What do you recommend for an independent repair shop or DIY to troubleshoot and repair issues with the LEAF besides Leaf Spy Pro?

We need regulations that require EV manufacturers to comply with OBDII standard protocols so that DIY drivers could purchase commercial scan tools to work on them.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL+ purchased 8/10/2019

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:29 pm

You heard it here first, folks: Knowing the Ahr remaining in the battery is a national security risk !! Or something.
LeafSpy is excellent (within the constraints of the Nissan BMS); future NIssan encryption of OBDII is BS and an attempt to cover up crappy battery tech; and OE is a shill.

'nuff said
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

goldbrick
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:12 pm

GerryAZ wrote:We need regulations that require EV manufacturers to comply with OBDII standard protocols so that DIY drivers could purchase commercial scan tools to work on them.
+1. I would guess OBDII was introduced as part of the mandated emissions tech at the time. I still remember hearing how carburetors and points were somehow better than all the new-fangled computerized fuel-injection stuff but I can't believe anyone still thinks that now days. Having OBDII readouts makes working on modern ICE cars pretty straight-forward. IMHO, even more information could be provided but I'm sure the auto manufacturers are balancing price vs utility and what is there is pretty good. Fortunately, EV's require much less maintenance than ICE cars but some sort of OBDEV standard would be a good thing, IMHO.

lorenfb
Posts: 2295
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:21 am

GerryAZ wrote: I would consider purchasing Consult 3+ from Nissan if I could get the necessary hardware and software for a reasonable price.
Here's one;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-USED- ... SwbihaLKET

If Nissan would even sell one not being a Nissan dealer, it would most likely cost $10K+.
Most proprietary OEM automotive diagnostic tools cost $15K-$20K and require a logon to the OEM for major functions.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 5461
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Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:36 am

OrientExpress wrote:... Technically and legally they are under no obligation to provide the customer with anything more than a black box product.....
Perhaps. Hopefully we'll eventually get some meaningful "Right to Repair" legislation. Protecting the car's internal network is one thing. Refusing to provide essential information to end-users thereby forcing them to use your overpriced proprietary repair facilities is another.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

GerryAZ
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Re: Interpreting Leafspy results

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:01 pm

goldbrick wrote:
GerryAZ wrote:We need regulations that require EV manufacturers to comply with OBDII standard protocols so that DIY drivers could purchase commercial scan tools to work on them.
+1. I would guess OBDII was introduced as part of the mandated emissions tech at the time. I still remember hearing how carburetors and points were somehow better than all the new-fangled computerized fuel-injection stuff but I can't believe anyone still thinks that now days. Having OBDII readouts makes working on modern ICE cars pretty straight-forward. IMHO, even more information could be provided but I'm sure the auto manufacturers are balancing price vs utility and what is there is pretty good. Fortunately, EV's require much less maintenance than ICE cars but some sort of OBDEV standard would be a good thing, IMHO.
Car manufacturers had their own proprietary diagnostic interfaces before the OBDII standard. Some would let DIYs read codes by turning ignition on/off/on/off/on and then counting flashes of the check engine light, others required inserting something like a paper clip into a connector to start the flashing, and others had no direct method for DIYs to get codes. My 30 (almost 31) year old Jeep is in the last category, but I have been able to troubleshoot and maintain it by testing individual sensors with a digital voltmeter and/or oscilloscope. American Motors and Chrysler designed and manufactured a good system back then because I have only had to replace throttle position sensors (1 warranty and 1 by me) and oxygen sensors (2 warranty and 1 by me) in almost 31 years and 200,000 miles. All that being said, the standard interface dictated by regulations (adopted by manufacturers only because they had no choice) really made things easier for DIYs and independent repair shops. As I said previously, we need regulations that require EV manufacturers to adhere to a suitable standard for commercially available scan tools. We may also need stronger regulations regarding replacement parts availability.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL+ purchased 8/10/2019

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