metricus
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 1:51 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2019
Leaf Number: 307046
Location: Reading, PA

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 8:02 am

That's valuable advice. I have just finished watching a video from TeslaByorn. It is exactly what I found. Your daily range is about 500 km. End of story. And he in in Norway!

Back to my old leaf, maybe the temp gauge was shoddy but surely never saw my charge throttled down. Probably due to better cooling. Anyway this is passe.

I will get a dongle and figure out if my batt has any different behaviour. But from what I saw in the video it is pretty much what i found.

Also I only saw my car charging at 43 kW once when it was new. Since then it never went higher than 35.

I need to find that table and get a dongle. Or return the Leaf....

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 8:13 am

metricus wrote: I will get a dongle and figure out if my batt has any different behaviour.
Good plan. In particular I would try to answer if your battery is heating up faster than expected.
If needed, here is a tutorial to measure battery resistance: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... resistance
LeafSpy will give you voltage and current readings as you vary load.

This video of Bjorn's at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T00TveCh-_w

has a lot of summary data.
Look at 04:30 into the video for examples of battery temperature rise during charging at different charging rates and ambient temperatures. It looks like an easy screen: much over 0.35 C/% during a moderate temperature day in your car would suggest something is amiss in your car.
Last edited by SageBrush on Sun May 19, 2019 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

lorenfb
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 9:28 am

SageBrush wrote: The 62 kWh model is improved in terms of rapid-gate
That's yet to be determined, i.e. basically no data exists compared to the 40 kWh except anecdotal - especially via LeafSpy.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

lorenfb
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 9:59 am

SageBrush wrote: If needed, here is a tutorial to measure battery resistance: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... resistance
LeafSpy will give you voltage and current readings as you vary load.
Turbo3 (LeafSpy) had indicated that the Pro versus would have a feature to measure the battery resistance as in the Tesla app (TM-Spy)
and in the LeafDD (Leaf parameter app). To date it appears that the feature is not yet available in LeafSpy. Here are data from my 2013 Leaf
which provides one an idea of how battery resistance is affected by temperature, age, & SOC:

11/20/14 -13,700 miles, 76 mohms per LeafDD, 20 Deg, 73% SOC
11/27 -13,800 miles, 67 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg, 63% SOC
11/30 - 13,900 miles, 56 mohms per LeafDD, 27 deg, 71% SOC
12/2 - 14.100 miles, 55 mohms per LeafDD, 28 deg, 67% SOC
12/16 - 14,500 miles, 89 mohms per LeafDD, 15 deg, 93% SOC
12/27/14 - 14,800 miles, 103 mohms per LeafDD, 11 deg, 24% SOC
3/10 - 17,400 miles, 60 mohms per LeafDD, 30 deg, 73% SOC
3/14 - 17, 550 miles, 56 mohms per LeafDD, 32 deg, 47% SOC
4/14 - 19,100 miles, 59 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg. 38% SOC
5/4 - 19,989 miles, 64 mohms per LeafDD, 24 deg. 48% SOC
5/15 - 20,400 miles, 73 mohms per LeafDD, 20 deg. 41% SOC
5/22 - 20,700 miles, 58 mohms per LeafDD, 28 deg. 50% SOC
12/10/15 - 28,000 miles, 90 mohms per LeafDD, 19 deg. 92% SOC
4/5 - 32,000 miles, 74 mohms per LeafDD, 24 deg, 55% SOC
5/16 - 33,700 miles, 89 mohms per LeafDD, 22 deg, 47% SOC
5/16 - 33.700 miles, 58 mohms per LeafDD, 31 deg, 76% SOC
10/5 - 39,300 miles, 100 mohms per LeafDD, 22 deg, 50% SOC
10/6 - 39,400 miles, 61 mohms per LeafDD, 30 deg, 51% SOC
10/7 - 39,500 miles, 80 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg, 56% SOC
10/15 - 40,000 miles, 71 mohms per LeafDD, 27 deg, 45% SOC
10/30 - 41,000 miles, 74 mohms per LeafDD, 23 deg, 66% SOC
12/26/16 - 43,000 miles, 110 mohms per LeafDD, 13 deg, 77% SOC
6/10/17 - 49,600 miles, 89 mohms per LeafDD, 19 deg, 70% SOC
7/1/17 - 51,000 miles, 62 mohms per LeafDD, 33 deg, 44% SOC
8/15/17 - 53,400 miles, 61 mohms per LeafDD, 35 deg, 57% SOC
4/2/18 - 62,100 miles, 110 mohms per LeafDD, 18 deg, 94% SOC
6/13/18 - 65,000 miles, 84 mohms per LeafDD, 26 deg, 52% SOC
8/13/18 - 67,000 miles, 80 mohms per LeafDD, 26 deg, 91% SOC
9/14/18 - 68,000 miles, 84 mohms per LeafDD, 27 deg, 57% SOC
10/30/18 - 70,000 miles, 93 mohms per LeafDD, 22 deg, 84% SOC
11/9/18 - 70,000 miles, 104 mohms per LeafDD, 22 deg, 89% SOC
11/30/18 - 70,400 miles, 88 mohms per LeafDD, 23 deg, 88% SOC
12/6/18 - 70,800 miles, 116 mohms per LeadDD, 13 deg, 33% SOC
1/30/19 - 72,300 miles, 86 mohms, per LeadDD, 23 deg, 45% SOC

A very basic resistance test of the 2018 Leaf indicated that it had a similar resistance value to 2013, i.e. it was expected to have a lesser value
given the higher capacity.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 11:41 am

lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote: If needed, here is a tutorial to measure battery resistance: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... resistance
LeafSpy will give you voltage and current readings as you vary load.
Turbo3 (LeafSpy) had indicated that the Pro versus would have a feature to measure the battery resistance as in the Tesla app (TM-Spy)
and in the LeafDD (Leaf parameter app).
Do you know the update frequency of the voltage and amperage that is displayed in LeafSpy ?
I've not tried to measure resistance in my battery but it appears to be a simple test. I would set my phone to record the app on the screen as I stomp on the go pedal (in order to have a ~ constant power draw.) I imagine a couple of seconds would be enough to get a stable reading.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 11:50 am

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote: If needed, here is a tutorial to measure battery resistance: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... resistance
LeafSpy will give you voltage and current readings as you vary load.
Turbo3 (LeafSpy) had indicated that the Pro versus would have a feature to measure the battery resistance as in the Tesla app (TM-Spy)
and in the LeafDD (Leaf parameter app).
Do you know the update frequency of the voltage and amperage that is displayed in LeafSpy ?
I've not tried to measure resistance in my battery but it appears to be a simple test. I would set my phone to record the app on the screen as I stomp on the go pedal (in order to have a ~ constant power draw.) I imagine a couple of seconds would be enough to get a stable reading.
It might also be interesting to measure battery resistance while the battery is charging at a DC fast charger.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

lorenfb
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 1:12 pm

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote: If needed, here is a tutorial to measure battery resistance: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... resistance
LeafSpy will give you voltage and current readings as you vary load.
Turbo3 (LeafSpy) had indicated that the Pro versus would have a feature to measure the battery resistance as in the Tesla app (TM-Spy)
and in the LeafDD (Leaf parameter app).
Do you know the update frequency of the voltage and amperage that is displayed in LeafSpy ?
I've not tried to measure resistance in my battery but it appears to be a simple test. I would set my phone to record the app on the screen as I stomp on the go pedal (in order to have a ~ constant power draw.) I imagine a couple of seconds would be enough to get a stable reading.
That's exactly how it's done. The calculation is just delta V / delta I. Don't know the update rate, but would be best calculated within the app.
Last edited by lorenfb on Sun May 19, 2019 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

lorenfb
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 1:17 pm

SageBrush wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
Turbo3 (LeafSpy) had indicated that the Pro versus would have a feature to measure the battery resistance as in the Tesla app (TM-Spy)
and in the LeafDD (Leaf parameter app).
Do you know the update frequency of the voltage and amperage that is displayed in LeafSpy ?
I've not tried to measure resistance in my battery but it appears to be a simple test. I would set my phone to record the app on the screen as I stomp on the go pedal (in order to have a ~ constant power draw.) I imagine a couple of seconds would be enough to get a stable reading.
It might also be interesting to measure battery resistance while the battery is charging at a DC fast charger.
Yes! Had DaveinOlyWA last year try that on his new 2018:

1. Check battery voltage (LS - LeafSpy) before pressing start on QC.
2. Once QC is started, immediately note battery voltage (LS) and charging current (QC).
3. Battery resistance = (#2 voltage - #1 voltage) / #2 current

My "friend", Oils4AsphaultOnly, tried that approach on his 30 kWh too. Both battery resistances were very similar to my 2013, not good.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 2:29 pm

lorenfb wrote: Yes! Had DaveinOlyWA last year try that on his new 2018:

1. Check battery voltage (LS - LeafSpy) before pressing start on QC.
2. Once QC is started, immediately note battery voltage (LS) and charging current (QC).
3. Battery resistance = (#2 voltage - #1 voltage) / #2 current
How about this mod to the method:

Using LeafSpy, ~ same SoC
1. Measure i and V at home (L2 charging at 32 Amps) when the numbers are stable
2. Measure i and V at a DC fast charger when the numbers are stable
Calculate d(V)/d(i)

EA says that a DCFC is coming 'soon' to my city so that would give me another reason to try it out. ;-)
The DCFC is a gentle downhill from my home so the battery temp should change very little
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

lorenfb
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun May 19, 2019 6:19 pm

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote: Yes! Had DaveinOlyWA last year try that on his new 2018:

1. Check battery voltage (LS - LeafSpy) before pressing start on QC.
2. Once QC is started, immediately note battery voltage (LS) and charging current (QC).
3. Battery resistance = (#2 voltage - #1 voltage) / #2 current
How about this mod to the method:

Using LeafSpy, ~ same SoC
1. Measure i and V at home (L2 charging at 32 Amps) when the numbers are stable
2. Measure i and V at a DC fast charger when the numbers are stable
Calculate d(V)/d(i)

EA says that a DCFC is coming 'soon' to my city so that would give me another reason to try it out. ;-)
The DCFC is a gentle downhill from my home so the battery temp should change very little
Yes, but you need a step function change in current with basically a short rise time in the current (di/dt very low),
i.e. a no load to full load is ideal as in a vehicle launch mode.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

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