sthbeach
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:49 pm
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Leaf Number: 312576

My Equation For A New Nissan Battery!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:45 am

2018 Nissan Leaf SL
40,000kms
SOH: 94%
Ownership: 1 month

I guestimate the car has been on the road for 18 months previous to me owning it and LeafSpy showed 98 DCFC's and 587 L1/L2 charges =
6 DCFC per month
33 L1/L2 per month.

My current driving =
0-2 DCFC per month
25 L1/L2 per month
I do approx 40-45k kms per year so I will be out of warranty by approx spring 2022.

Let's say, by necessity, I have to start DCFC by spring 2020 giving me 2 years or 24 more months till my warranty runs out.
So at 20 DCFC a month ( approx 3 x the current rate) and 25 L1/L2 charges a month ( approx equal to the current rate).

So if I am currently losing .33% SOH a month and for the last 2 years or 24 months I increase that rate 3 X ( because of DCFC) to 1% a month, I can effectively lose an additional 24% SOH before the warranty is up. Add the 8% loss I will approx be at by spring 2020 and this = Grand total of 32% SOH loss = A new battery from Nissan!

Hell, if I have to I can even take an extra trip a weekend to my local DCFC charger 5 kms away to tack on about an extra 100 DCFC's in the 2 year period for insurance purposes to put me over the top.
It might actually work!

Of course this assuming all stats are actual and not Nissan mumbo-jumbo bullshit.

LeftieBiker
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Re: My Equation For A New Nissan Battery!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:04 pm

You will likely lose much less SOH during the Winter, assuming you have those where you live.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
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Nubo
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Re: My Equation For A New Nissan Battery!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:32 pm

I don't follow the topic that closely but my impression is that a partial QC isn't all that detrimental and the real issue is multiple full quick-charges per day. It sounds like a lot of work to sit there for hundreds of full charges if all you really need is a small charge here and there, and unless the QC station is free it's going to cost you money. And the outcome is not guaranteed; you may end up shooting yourself in the foot and spending a lot of time and effort to get there.

And we've already discussed the easiest way for you to improve your range, which is good for the battery as well.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

sthbeach
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:49 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Aug 2019
Leaf Number: 312576

Re: My Equation For A New Nissan Battery!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:54 pm

Well, I am at 94.13% SOH, I know there is no guarantee of linear degredation but if by the spring my battery is less than 92% SOH, I'm going for it!
I can always try like a 3 month trial run with driving hard and doing a 20 minute DCFC every day and log all my stats from LeafSpy and then make a decision whether to keep on that pace or just give up and dial it back.

LeftieBiker
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Re: My Equation For A New Nissan Battery!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:33 pm

I don't follow the topic that closely but my impression is that a partial QC isn't all that detrimental and the real issue is multiple full quick-charges per day.
You don't need a full QC for degradation, just enough to heat the pack to marginally hot. That can, IIRC, be as little as a third of a full charge, in warm weather.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

sthbeach
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:49 pm
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Re: My Equation For A New Nissan Battery!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:58 am

That's what I thought too, Lefty.
So a 20 minute DCFC a day will not keep the doctor away!

Lothsahn
Posts: 541
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Leaf Number: 007797

Re: My Equation For A New Nissan Battery!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:22 am

sthbeach wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:54 pm
Well, I am at 94.13% SOH, I know there is no guarantee of linear degredation but if by the spring my battery is less than 92% SOH, I'm going for it!
I can always try like a 3 month trial run with driving hard and doing a 20 minute DCFC every day and log all my stats from LeafSpy and then make a decision whether to keep on that pace or just give up and dial it back.
Degradation doesn't appear to be linear. https://pushevs.com/2018/03/20/nissan-l ... batteries/

Seems that degradation accelerates, which works in your favor for a battery replacement. However, the loss of capacity in the first year often is higher than expected. It's likely there's variation between packs and the BMS has to learn the capacity by using it. So there are a lot of assumptions here. If you're right, you get a new pack. If you're wrong, you don't and you end up with a pack more degraded than properly taking care of it (plus time wasted visiting charging stations).

Good luck!
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
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Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

DaveinOlyWA
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Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
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Re: My Equation For A New Nissan Battery!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:02 am

Physically speaking; Your rate of degradation should increase since you effectively have a smaller pack which will have to work harder to cover the same distance. You will have to charge to a higher SOC, have less flexibility for on the road charging, etc.

Realistically speaking; The Nissan BMS is not giving us a realistic expectation of degradation rates at this point. I also had fast degradation initially to the point where my planned announcement of 8% loss (1/12th capacity) for this past Spring has been put off. The Summer driving season, although not as severe as last Summer didn't really do anything to the pack. the first 3rd of October is my next adjustment so we shall have to see what happens then.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
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rogersleaf
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:50 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Mar 2019
Leaf Number: 307726
Location: Kent, Ohio

Re: My Equation For A New Nissan Battery!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:15 am

sthbeach wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:58 am
That's what I thought too, Lefty.
So a 20 minute DCFC a day will not keep the doctor away!
If your goal is to degrade the pack, you might need a combination of factors to generate enough sustained heat. Especially in a colder climate (noted was using metric measurements). Mine is driven in similar climate conditions. Driving it fast & hard on a hotter summer day might produce battery temps in the low 100’s F. Did a long 50-minute DCFC last week that produced similar peak temps. charging from @ 20% to 95%. Might need both combined to do real damage.

Should also add that my usage profile and monthly mileage is likely similar. I’m anticipating hitting the 100k mile battery warranty mark at slightly under 5 years. My own guesstimate is somewhere in the low 80% SOH when that happens. Only time will tell.
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver - returned 1/2017 at end of lease.
2019 SL - White - w/Tech Package

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14231
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Re: My Equation For A New Nissan Battery!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:24 am

Degrading the pack is easy. Just charge it like most people do :lol:
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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